What would you do with \$15M?

# Thread: What would you do with \$15M?

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\r\n I thought that "M" in this context was the Roman numeral for thousand. And adding a line above made it 1 million.
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\nAssuming the OP is speaking of 15 million, well, that sum might buy a nice house in East Vancouver that could be rented out for \$1,500 a month or so.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Mukhang pera\r\n \r\n
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I thought that "M" in this context was the Roman numeral for thousand. And adding a line above made it 1 million.
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\nAssuming the OP is speaking of 15 million, well, that sum might buy a nice house in East Vancouver that could be rented out for \$1,500 a month or so.
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To rent for \$1.500 he can buy 600K house in GTA \r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Mukhang pera\r\n \r\n
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I thought that "M" in this context was the Roman numeral for thousand. And adding a line above made it 1 million.
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Depends on which nomenclature you are adopting.
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\nCommon parlance has K, M and B denoting Thousand, Million and Billion. This from the French etymology (although with much older Greek and Italian roots if you dig deeper). Is used for more than just financial figures: kB (kilobyte), km, kg, etc.
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\nThe Roman etymology is used more within internal financial circles, M, MM, MMM for a thousand, a thousand thousand (million) and a thousand thousand thousand (billion).
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\nBoth are correct as long as you make it clear which system you are using and do not mix etymologies. Don\'t write K for a thousand and then MM for a million.\r\n
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\r\n Well thanks for that, light.
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\nAny insights to share on what the OP should be doing with his Ms? I suggested a Vancouver special. Gibor correctly pointed out that a much more modestly priced house in the GTA would show a better return. Maybe just buy up a block of \'em and be done with it?\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriends\r\n \r\n
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\n... I have no desire to pick stocks. I plan to either do passive investing, or have someone else actively manage our money.
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\n... I have been a couch potato investor for many years. I understand the theory of passive investing and it makes sense to me.
\n... I believe that there maybe stormy waters ahead in the global economy and... sometimes I start falling into the dangerous trap of thinking "this time its different" ...
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\n...
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Hardly sounds like a good investor profile to invest in our over-inflated real estate markets.
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\nTo OP: if it ain\'t broke, don\'t fix it. 150K or 15M, the couch potato works the same. Why gamble that some active manager might be able to squeeze more returns in exchange for their fees? You will be spending your retirement wondering if you are getting your money\'s worth from your adviser instead of enjoying your income.\r\n
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\r\n i think he should buy a small island & then secede from canada
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\r\nit\'d be a blast to have your own country
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\r\n Wow, I know we have had \$1M, \$2M threads, but \$15M? CONGRATS
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\nI would not be online anymore, go enjoy life
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\nBut seriously, look into active/wealth management, Mawer is good\r\n
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\r\n Thanks for the replies!
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\r\nYes, I\'m speaking K,M,B language so I did mean millions. Seems like a lot of money.
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\r\nMOA / OGG
\r\nWhat I was thinking was, even though I understand and buy into the philosophy of passive investing... well, I don\'t have any experience with a "reputable wealth management firm". I expect that the management firm won\'t totally mess things up, its just a question of whether their management is worth it. I thought maybe I should try that angle out with a portion of the stake for the experience. Whatever I do, as long as it is conservative, I can always move the capital to another scheme as I learn more. I figure I have enough to do more than one scheme and then evaluate.
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\r\nBut the "if it aint broke dont fix it" feedback is good! Thanks!
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\r\ngibor / dubmac / jerry
\r\nThanks for the recommendations. I have not looked up MAWER although I\'ve seen the name - I will definitely check them out.
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\r\nMukhang - yeah, I won\'t be investing in real-estate in Vancouver... I think that bubble is about to pop. I might buy a condo at a ski hill, anything further in real estate I was thinking a REIT. I don\'t want to be a landlord and trust property management firms as much as I trust mutual fund salesmen.
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\r\nEder - that is remarkably close to what I want to do (minus the "till its gone" part)
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\r\njerry - for the record it isn\'t in my bank account yet. And , yeah, I\'ve been reading a lot of websites that talk about "what to do if you win the lottery" and the general advice is : don\'t do anything sudden or drastic.
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\r\nIt may seem weird to be asking for advice on-line for this kind of situation... I should be talking to professionals or something. But, I figure I should listen to a wide range of sources before I make any decision. You can tell I\'m the analysis-paralysis kind of personality. But this community seems like a good place to start when looking for resources!
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\r\nThanks again!\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by jerryhung\r\n \r\n
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Wow, I know we have had \$1M, \$2M threads, but \$15M? CONGRATS
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\r\nI would not be online anymore, go enjoy life
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\r\nBut seriously, look into active/wealth management, Mawer is good
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Can you please point me to these \$1M and \$2M threads if they\'ve been particularly vibrant discussions? I haven\'t found much via searching. Thank you.\r\n
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\r\n We sold our business in stages 3-4 years ago for nowhere near your money but it was 7 figures.We have done the same with the large amounts as we did with lower amounts , still slowly moving cash into non registered accounts and buying dividend paying stocks .FYI the bulk is at TD Direct Investing but recently opened an account with CIBC.\r\n
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\r\n has anybody noticed how regularly they turn up here?
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\r\nbrand-new posters, never seen before, but somehow they\'ve recently managed to acquire \$1-15M dollars.
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\r\neven though they were smart enough to acquire the \$1000K in the first place, somehow they get all naiive & tongue-tied when it comes to investing.
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\r\neven though they would have had the best accountants in town to build that business - or granpappy who died & left that \$1B would have had the best financial advisors in the free world - nevertheless once the funds fall into their allegedly innocent hands, somehow our novice newbie millionnaires turn into investment 12-year-olds.
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\r\nalways, without exception, up step the cmf forum stalwarts with their *advice.*
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\r\nthe stalwarts wouldn\'t step up for \$50k, but oh my, how they love to step up with advice for what they believe is \$1M.
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\r\nalways, we see how - once the flurry of excited posts dies down - the novice millionnaires vanish with their fortunes, never to be seen again.
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\r\nthe repetition has gotten to the point where i\'ve become a total cynic. I think these sudden newbie millionnaires might be plants. I think they are fictions. I think they are fairy tales injected into the forum on a regular basis in order to perk up financial interest from readers who are drop-dead bored with the never-ending fights over nazis, arabs, moslems & refugees.
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\r\n Good point, this is all really very disturbing.
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\r\nThere are few alternative explanations for this phenomenon other than the aliens who are using this complex, human-driven cmf platform for purposes of mind control. It is said that the alien mind control approach is actually a cover story intended to conceal something even more disturbing than aliens, that being an encroachment on the very souls of those chosen to be victims of government and military experiments that seek to control the workings of the human brain itself for purposes of psychological warfare and for intelligence operations requiring a “zombie” type agent who has no idea he is carrying out a covert mission at all.
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\r\nThe only other explanation would be that the posters are telling the truth and who would believe that???\r\n
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\r\nthe size of this portfolio puts it in a class of its own. Posts treating these funds as if \$15M were \$1M that should be run regular couch potato style are not quite on the money, imho.
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\r\nin reality, an investor with \$15M has unique challenges & tax restrictions which few persons in this forum ever face.
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\r\nthe OP, stayThirsty, has stated that he will have at least one corporation plus possibly an inter vivos trust or trusts.
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\r\nhe says he is concerned by standard index fund or ETF management fees & one can easily understand why. A 1% fee could cost stayThirsty \$150,000 per annum, an amount that could hire his very own recent CFA to manage his portfolio full-time.
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\r\neven halved, a .50% fee could cost \$75,000, an amount that could hire his very own recent CA to manage his portfolio full-time ...
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\r\nalthough stayThirsty appears to be gone now from this thread, one can see him working intelligently on portfolio planning in early posts. He wonders whether he could manage the easier portions of his portfolio, such as GIC ladders, himself. With even greater detail, he asks whether he could not also manage core stock sectors himself, since these will likely consist of stable holdings of blue chip stocks.
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\r\ni think an appropriate response might go something like Yes & Yes, but Perhaps Not Quite Just Yet.
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\r\ni think stayThirsty should sit down with ultra-high-net-worth advisors & listen to their ideas & proposals. As i\'ve mentioned, i think he should end up choosing the team that will work best with himself. I haven\'t mentioned, but i think he should resign himself at first to paying their high fees. After all, such fees will be tax deductible.
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\r\ni think stayThirsty should select a team that will be comfortable gradually working its way towards a partial exit door, if he chooses to move more into hands-on financial management in the end.
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\r\ni\'ve looked at stayThirsty\'s earlier messages on cmf forum, now that he\'s confessed that he used to post here under a different username. He appears to be an entrepreneurial soul & i for one believe he would be an excellent candidate to ultimately manage half or three-quarters of his windfall portfolio himself. He might engage specialized investment counsel to manage small cap or emerging microcap investment opportunities, but in the end i think stayThirsty would do fine with the KISS core portfolio, huge though that might be.
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\r\na key aspect will be US stock selection, but here the above-mentioned planning stage & the qualified advisor will matter most, as it will be helpful to hold US securities in the corporation or in the private trust or in both. For reasons such as avoiding US estate taxation, for example.
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\r\nall this is by way of saying that discussing regular ETFs such as XIC or regular funds such as mawer or performance is something of a waste of time when it comes to mammoth portfolios. Like all large creatures, these require enclosure in their own special protected national parks.
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\r\n Originally Posted by humble_pie\r\n \r\n
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all this is by way of saying that discussing regular ETFs such as XIC or regular funds such as mawer or performance is something of a waste of time when it comes to mammoth portfolios. Like all large creatures, these require enclosure in their own special protected national parks.
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But are the ETFs really such a bad idea as a first cut? Take ZCN for instance with its 0.06% MER (or \$9,000 a year). You get 420k all in eligible dividends.
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\nEven with naive T1 taxes, the average tax rate is 31% and of that 420k gross distribution you get to keep 291k. Is that really so bad?
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\nHow much better would a team of people (the CFA, the broker, the stock expert) do by managing a portfolio themselves? How much lower can they push that average tax rate through complicated corporate structures? How much pay will that CFA & broker & lawyer etc want ... I guarantee you they will want more than \$9,000 a year.
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\nAnd the investor herself ... if she is the kind of person who can amass \$15 million in wealth, surely their time is better spent on other pursuits.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by james4beach\r\n \r\n
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But are the ETFs really such a bad idea as a first cut?
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\r\nETFs are a terrible idea for the super-rich. Among the reasons is the heretical-but-correct fact that the funds do not hold the securities which - in canada - they are allowed to claim they are holding.
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\r\njames4, at one point in the past you were on board with haroldCrump & myself on this issue. That funds & ETFs are lending out their holdings - in some cases up to a third of their holdings - to brokers in return for fees reported to be in the neighbourhood of 2%, marked to market value. Which is how the ETFs are able to lower their MERs to such unrealistic levels.
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\r\nin other cases ETFs are holding proxies & derivatives in lieu of actual real stocks via representational sampling techniques. All this is spelled out in their prospectuses.
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\r\nin the US, the SEC requires minimal disclosure of loaned funds. However the required information is buried so deep & so obscurely, hundreds of pages back in footnotes to audited financial statements, that no investors can ever find it.
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\r\nin canada, there are not yet any regulations at all which require this information to be made available to the investing public.
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\r\nin canada, only advisors are told. As one Black Rock canadian manager explained to me a year ago, "Individual investors cannot be given this [securities lending] information because they won\'t be able to understand it."
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\r\nas i say, this is a story whose time has not yet come. You might remember haroldCrump\'s posts a year ago on this very issue. Harold posted that it will take the failure of a major global money center bank to expose the tiers of derivatives held by such bank\'s many divisions, including its wealth management fund product divisions & its wholly-owned brokers who are holding the funds\' borrowed stocks.
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\r\n ... block your eyes & ears james4. You don\'t want to hear any of this.
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\r\n \r\n And the investor herself ... if she is the kind of person who can amass \$15 million in wealth, surely their time is better spent on other pursuits.\r\n \r\n
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on the contrary, this is an investor who will likely be able to turn \$15M into \$50M & more ... donating to charities along the way ... what\'s not to like
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\r\n ETF fees for XIC or VTI are not 1% or 0.5% but 0.05%. Indexing is definitely an option for someone with 15 mil.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by mordko\r\n \r\n
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ETF fees for XIC or VTI are not 1% or 0.5% but 0.05%. Indexing is definitely an option for someone with 15 mil.
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\r\nno, simple indexing would never be a startup option for a party with 15 million dollars.
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\r\nthe reasons have nothing to do with low or high MERs. The reasons have to do with complex needs - US estate taxation, foreign taxation, foreign real estate holdings, estate planning, income splitting, supporting offspring at foreign universities - such a party will benefit from specialized ultra-high-net-worth advisors.
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\r\nthese advisors do exist. We don\'t hear about them in this forum because, as mukhang pera says, no one on here has 15M.
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\r\n Originally Posted by humble_pie\r\n \r\n
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\nalways, without exception, up step the cmf forum stalwarts with their *advice.*
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\nthe stalwarts wouldn\'t step up for \$50k, but oh my, how they love to step up with advice for what they believe is \$1M.
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Well with just 50k I wouldn\'t advise anyone to buy a sailboat and would have nothing to contribute.\r\n
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\r\n Over time I\'d put all of it in quality dividend paying Canadian stocks. Just look at the largest holdings in cdn etf\'s for a guide. You have to have the right mind set for this however. You have to have confidence in what you are buying so you don\'t bail out during a hiccup, pot hole, or what have you. You mitigate risk by buying quality. Once you see the dividends rolling in you\'ll like it.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriends\r\n \r\n
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I\'m surprised by the sudden reluctance I hvae to discuss it [the new funds] openly ...
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\r\nAnyway, HP, I have a fair amount of respect for you having seen and agree with several of your posts in the time I\'ve been hanging out here, and I understand your suspicion that I\'m a troll. How would you recommend that I should have handled this?
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\r\nsince you did ask me How would i recommend handling your new wealth, here are a few thoughts ...
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\r\n1) talk much less. At least your wife - sensible girl - was able to edit you down. At least you were able to change your username, out of concern that some would be able to recognize you (although having 2 usernames is already a bit of a manipulation.)
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\r\n2) sorry, i\'m not falling for this stuff about you\'re-the-business-tech-guy-so-you-don\'t-know-finance. Why not ask the professionals working for your company for a few introductions. Then i\'d sit down with these new professionals & i\'d listen carefully. I do believe you will learn far more from them, even in one meeting or 2, than you will from e-mailing or phoning an unknown mutual fund company.
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\r\n3) surely you can see that cmf forum is not a gathering of multi-millionnaires. Surely you can understand that there is bound to be some resentment that you - who say you are so financially fortunate in life - you are demanding so much exotic information geared to rich people from this forum, yet you are giving nothing back?
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\r\nby contrast, i can think of at least 2 retired gentlemen on here who appear to be well-off. Yet what they do in this forum is labour mightily, in all of their posts, to serve & help others. They have generously done exactly this for many years.
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\r\ni can think of younger members who behave the same. All are net donors here, not net takers.
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\r\n4) a massive opportunity is coming your way, one that will presumably affect your entire life. Will your job cease with the winding up of the company? what will your next avocation in life be? will you eventually be looking to start up a new business?
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\r\n5) perhaps even more importantly, how are you going to involve your wife in what could be a magnificent new chapter for both of you? i\'m glad to hear about mrs stayThirsty & i\'m certainly happy to hear that you have respect for her views, but i\'d be even happier to hear that she\'ll be accompanying you to financial planning meetings.
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\r\n6) i believe that, in your shoes, i might anticipate a time frame as long as a full year or even more, to work up a proper multi-year financial plan. It might even turn out that you will end up with an investment plan that you can manage & execute yourself. After all, looking after 20,000 TD bank shares is not really very much more work than looking after 2000 of them.
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\r\n7) however, the sense i have is that you somewhat urgently wish to skip the planning stage & rush on to the actual asset management stage. Might i respectfully suggest that this rush should slow down a little bit. It takes a long time to create & set up a plan that, ideally, should function for the next 30 or 40 years or even longer.
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\r\n8) in closing, may i mention once again to refrain from discussing your personal circumstances in this forum. Security cautions should prevail!
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\r\nthe previous suddenly-rich newcomer said he only had \$1.5M
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\r\nhis superficial details - how he supposedly got his money - were different but the language signature was identical
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\r\ni\'m just an innocent who wouldn\'t know a stock from a sandbox, he said with a
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\r\nthe stalwarts feasted on that story for a few days
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\r\nit gave the oh-so-obvious couch-potato-financial-planner-insurance-broker-mortgage-broker salesmen on here a grand opportunity to showcase their wares
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\r\nas soon as the buzz wore off, \$1.5 million dollars vanished
\r\nnever to be seen or heard from again
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\r\nalas, financial forums attract more than their fair share of chicanery
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\r\n I have several friends have have north of \$10 million. Mostly they are interested in nice homes and cottages, nice cars, and sometimes nice boats. Only one hangs around the internet because he manages his own portfolio. He is careful not to divulge the size of his stash. He has found resentment/disbelief when he does so.
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\nAll these people made their money by developing a business and selling it. We share some common interests but our budget prohibits us from participating fully.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by kcowan\r\n \r\n
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I have several friends have have north of \$10 million. Mostly they are interested in nice homes and cottages, nice cars, and sometimes nice boats. Only one hangs around the internet because he manages his own portfolio. He is careful not to divulge the size of his stash. He has found resentment/disbelief when he does so.
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\r\nAll these people made their money by developing a business and selling it. We share some common interests but our budget prohibits us from participating fully.
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\r\nthe above parties are not the parties i\'m referring to!
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\r\nas mentioned, the parties i\'m focusing on have zero background in this forum. No history whatsoever. Typically, as with this OP, they announce in their very first post that they\'ve recently acquired a humungous number of \$\$.
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\r\nthen they ask for advice. Not the kind of advice they *should* be asking for, ie how to find lawyers & accountants to help them set up corporations or possible vacation property trusts in other countries, or how to plan for their estate heirs ...
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\r\nno, they ask for simple ordinary couch potato advice, so the ETF salesmen on here can then rhyme off their recommendations about alphabet soup portfolios.
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\r\nas soon as the interest dies down - maybe 2-3 weeks - mister nouveau riche promptly vanishes. Totally vanishes. Forever & ever.
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\r\nanother version of mister suddenly-rich is the virgin never-before-seen poster who discovers that daddykins or mummykins or granpappy is actully worth more than a million bucks, so now VNBS wants to know how to *help* their rich ancestor ...
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\r\nas mentioned, these stereotypes are appearing regularly in cmf forum. Every few weeks.
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\r\none tentative hypothesis could be that it is the forum owners who are doing this - or at least sub-contracting all these brand-new but suddenly-rich new members - in order to bring the forum focus back to finance.
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\r\n HP, I think your intuition in this matter is correct. That is why, in my early reply to this thread, I made no attempt to give serious advice but suggested, instead, blowing the roll on an East Vancouver house that could be used to generate gross revenue of \$1,500 per month.
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\r\nCertainly it\'s an odd first post to come here and announce a "windfall" (as the OP described it) of \$15 million. One is left to wonder how it can properly be characterized as a "windfall". Presumably, if the company in question was built up over time to have that kind of value, the OP should be somewhat familiar with financial matters and should not be taken by surprise by what the company is worth. The OP said "we" are selling, which suggests there might be other shareholders who are also about to receive millions and the company might well be worth a good deal more than \$15 million.
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\r\nIt is also passing strange that the OP speaks of \'"suddenly about to be a "high net worth individual"\'. Did the company just experience a major gold ore strike? If the company has been built up to have significant value, I would expect it to be the case that the OP has been a "high net worth individual" long before now. The net worth was in the shareholdings. Now it will be cash. What has changed?
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\r\nThere are probably few (if any) members here who have a net worth in the \$15 million range. Seems like the wrong crowd to approach to seek advice about investing a sum well beyond the ken of almost all.
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\r\nFinally, I\'ll observe the unusual tenor of this language of the OP: "We are selling our company, should close in a couple of months I should be sitting on over \$15M!" If there is indeed a sale in the offing of such a valuable asset, there should be a lot more certainty about the matter than is captured in the words "should close in a couple of months". and "should be sitting on over \$15M". By this late stage the lawyers should have the matter tied down to a certainty, there should be earnest money in trust and I would expect to see the post couched in language more along the lines of "closing will be in a couple of months" and I will be sitting on a fortune.
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\r\nEd. note to the OP: Should your post be what it purports to be, please forgive the skeptics here. Enjoy your millions. Perhaps go farming until the money is gone. Don\'t forget to show some beneficence to the less fortunate.\r\n
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\r\n I would pay off all debts. Spend 1.5 mill. Then put the remaining ~13 mill in a 60% fixed and 40% equity split in a couch potato and live off the interest.
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\r\nWhat is that? Half a mill salary each year at 4%? That\'ll do.\r\n
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\r\n Doesn\'t matter if you have 1 dollar or 100 million dollars. You follow the couch potato or mustache guy. Yeah thats great advice.
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\nIf I had 15M none of it would go into the market. I would put it into HISA and GIC. Pretty sure I can live off \$400k per year.
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\nBut then again, someone who built a 15M business would know what to do with the money and wouldn\'t be on here with their first post.\r\n
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\r\n Hi StayThirsty,
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\r\nCongratulations on completing your 15M deal!
\r\nI can understand what it feels like and Im sure you must have worked hard and sacrificed a lot of things along the way to get to this stage.
\r\nA windfall can be an easy thing to make people distracted and take wrong decisions but you have been quite responsible and Im sure you will be prudent in your decisions.
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\r\nIm assuming you dont have any loans or mortgages or debt. If you have some loans it may be a good idea to settle them off and use the remaining to invest. If its a low-interest mortgage you can retain it if the monthly payments are not burdensome.
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\r\nIf you want to start investing with a simple, hands-off approach (sort of passive investing). I\'m not a qualified advisor or professional but from personal experience I\'ve seen that passive approach using ETFs (index, REITs, etc) as well other monthly income-generating companies listed on TSX are a great way to get started. The biggest challenge here is to be patient and not worry about making big numbers - rather focus on building it block-by-block.
\r\nI dont want to brag about myself but just sharing my personal experience. I have had good success and failures in stock picking (outside Canada) and limited experience in Canada. So knowing my limits I stuck to index and income-investing approach which gave me peace of mind and regular income (like clock work).
\r\nI started off with humble beginnings with limited savings to make \$6 a month which could hardly buy a burger. In a matter of 8 months I\'ve reached \$60 a month level.
\r\nOf course it was not a smooth ride and I had seen lot of volatility and losses and had to make adjustments for tax and convenience purposes.
\r\n
\r\nYou can call the approach - Couch potato or passive of income investing or whatever, but at the end of the day like Kevin O Leary says an investment that does not pay dividends is just a Fantasy. This approach provides regular income plus the capital appreciation or stability although quite moderate. When you get dividends and channel it back and diversify your investment you are creating a growing compounding machine! You made \$15M and achieved a lot. With passive investing you spend less time on the investing thing and instead pursue your interests in business, travel, family or other things where you will get better satisfaction or professional experience.
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\r\nMy personal opinion is to avoid going to banks for investment advise or services. The reasons are obvious so I wont get in to that. If I were you I would have 2-3 or more discount brokerage accounts (for family members) and follow a disciplined and gradual investing strategy.
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\r\nLet me know if you have any question - I will try to answer as far as I know from my personal experience.
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\r\nIf you can try visiting blogs like Freedom35, Young and Thrifty to get some ideas. I\'m also working on crystallizing my ideas in to a blog, book or some kind of toolkit that can be of value to income-seeking investors.
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\r\nGood luck.
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\r\nSridhar
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\r\n Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriends\r\n \r\n
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Hi All,
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\r\nI am suddenly about to be a "high net worth individual"! We are selling our company, should close in a couple of months I should be sitting on over \$15M! It looks like financial independence may actually become a reality!
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\r\nNeedless to say, I now have a new thing to worry about : how do I manage the money? I want to "retire"... I want the freedom to pursue a variety of hobbies, and travel and only work if I choose. I am in my early 50\'s, am married and have 2 kids that are still in school.
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\r\nThis should be no problem with this kind of money. But I\'ve always been a frugal, fiscally responsible type of person and, well, proper stewardship of this windfall just seems like the right thing to do. I\'d like to invest it, live off the return with a conservative safe-withdrawl rate of, say, 1.5% after taxes.
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\r\nAt least half the windfall will be held in a holding company (for tax deferral - part of the sale deal structure) and we will need to pay tax on any value we pull out of it. But both myself and my wife are shareholders in the holding company. I have set up a Family Trust that will allow us to do some investment income splitting with our kids (with non-holdco investments).
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\r\nI have no desire to pick stocks. I plan to either do passive investing, or have someone else actively manage our money.
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\r\nFor our RRSPs, I have been a couch potato investor for many years. I understand the theory of passive investing and it makes sense to me. But I\'ve never really tracked my performance. (With an account that you are contributing to monthly with annual top-ups and infrequent rebalancing, it is hard to evaluate return on the back of an envelope I find.)
\r\n
\r\nSo, although I like passive investing, I don\'t have completely confidence in it... not when my family\'s future is at stake. I believe that there maybe stormy waters ahead in the global economy and... sometimes I start falling into the dangerous trap of thinking "this time its different" With the way interest rates have been for so long, and global fiscal experiments like quantitative easing. Maybe having some financial professionals on my side who contemplate these issues 24/7 is not a bad idea? But as a closet couch potato, I obviously want to minimize management expense and have a distrust of financial advisors - they\'re just trying to get a comission
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\r\nSo... thinking about low-maintenance active management, I\'ve talked to my bank\'s "High Net Worth Wealth Management" branch. They have their actively managed funds with fees that start at 1.3% and creep down the more money you have invested in them. At \$5M for example, their rates are 0.85%. This program has a \$1M investment threshold just to join the plan.
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\r\nI have considered talking to a 3rd party active management house like Steadyhand. Their rates seem similar to the bank.
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\r\nI\'ve heard of TIGER21, which seems like an investment club for rich people (not sure if I\'m rich enough to join though).
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\r\nMy thought at this point is maybe give the bank, and Steadyhand, each \$2-3M and see how they do - how I like the service, how much confidence they instill - and in the meantime just couch potato the rest. Also thinking that I should have the active managers focus on equity, and focus my own management efforts on fixed income. Since fixed income is typically safer but with less return, it doesn\'t make sense to me to have to pay the active MER\'s for portions of the money that are in fact much lower maintenance investments. (Does that make sense?)
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\r\nI also wonder if there are resources for "high networth individuals" that I am not tapping into.
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\r\nSo... why am I posting here? (Other than to flaunt? Seriously, I hope it doesn\'t sound like that, but this expected change is already making me feel self-conscious about my good luck.) I\'m wondering if people have any comments about "what would you do in my situation". How would you manage this windfall? Also, do people here have any insight into the HNI resources I wonder about?
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\r\nAnyway, looking forward to any responses. Sorry to be long winded but this kind of thing doesn\'t happen to me every day.
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\r\n This thread is fishy for another reason. Nobody would buy a 15M business that doesn\'t have an established revenue stream. So why would you sell a revenue stream to put it into another revenue stream you know nothing about. You know your business better than any alternative investment.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by tygrus\r\n \r\n
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This thread is fishy for another reason. Nobody would buy a 15M business that doesn\'t have an established revenue stream. So why would you sell a revenue stream to put it into another revenue stream you know nothing about. You know your business better than any alternative investment.
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I sold my revenue stream due to risk...big risk big rewards (and ulcers)\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by tygrus\r\n \r\n
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This thread is fishy for another reason. Nobody would buy a 15M business that doesn\'t have an established revenue stream. So why would you sell a revenue stream to put it into another revenue stream you know nothing about. You know your business better than any alternative investment.
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And if no one in the family wants to keep running the business where the owner also wants to step down ... what then?
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\nSome want to work until they drop and other\'s don\'t.
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\r\n Originally Posted by tygrus\r\n \r\n
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Dividends are definitely the way to avoid as much tax as possible, but they come with a catch....volatility ...
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??? ... with \$15 million, likely one is going to be above \$85K to \$91K of income.
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\nOntario, Quebec and Nova Scotia, to name a few tax jurisdictions, at these income levels are taxing eligible dividends more than capital gains. Top end spreads are around 13% more tax on dividends.
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\nCheers
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\nCheers\r\n
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\r\n \$15 M is a crazy amount of money, if still true.
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\nI stand by a simple 50/50 bond/equity split. That should yield about 3% or so. That\'s \$450,000 per year every year for life....and your kid\'s and your kid\'s kids....
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\nOtherwise, MAW105 http://www.mawer.com/our-funds/fund-...balanced-fund/
\n...is great as well.
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\nGeez....\$15 M. Wild. Some big fun parties in your future with \$450k per year.\r\n
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\r\nthe OP was for real. Had a partnership where he was the sole rainmaker, the others weren\'t pulling their weight & everybody knew it.
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\r\nhe sought advice on how to wind up the partnership without causing ill feelings under another name in this forum. Then returned in this thread with the \$15M after the partners decided to liquidate. But at \$15M, he was totally out of our league. As mukhang pera said, when has a cmffer ever had 15 million dollars?
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\r\nour friend is gone now, gone to that fabulous playland of the truly hyper-rich. Leaving us to slog on in the mud about our wretched little dividends & our miserable XIRRs .
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\r\n Originally Posted by humble_pie\r\n \r\n
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They shoot first, read later? \r\n
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\r\nin reality, he was a nice man & a smart man to boot, imho he deserved his blessings
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\r\n That is lottery money, that is the kind of money that can change a families fortunes forever, or destroy a family just as easily. It sounds like your plan is to live on a very moderate amount of money forever (relatively speaking of course). So the question even more so than what type of investments do you want to keep it in, is how do you raise your family in a way to respect this money, and use this money to grow themselves, and grow their wealth like you are doing rather than just blowing it.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by CalgaryPotato\r\n \r\n
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That is lottery money, that is the kind of money that can change a families fortunes forever, or destroy a family just as easily. It sounds like your plan is to live on a very moderate amount of money forever (relatively speaking of course). So the question even more so than what type of investments do you want to keep it in, is how do you raise your family in a way to respect this money, and use this money to grow themselves, and grow their wealth like you are doing rather than just blowing it.
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\r\n? maybe you in the wrong thread?
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\r\nthe OP here worked hard all his life, succeeded in business, dissolved his partnership amicably & ended up with 15 million \$\$. Nothing to do with lottery, blowing money or destruction of families.
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\r\nperhaps it\'s true that some do what onlyMO says above. Shoot first, read later ...
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\r\n If I suddenly found myself in the position to have many, many millions, I would NOT come here seeking input. What exactly suggests that people here are qualified to understand and offer professional advice taking into account all that would be appropriate for a sound financial plan?
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\nI would be shutting off almost all online activity unless it was research.
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\nVery odd behavior IMO.\r\n
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• \r\n'; pd[1513825] = '\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by janus10\r\n \r\n
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If I suddenly found myself in the position to have many, many millions, I would NOT come here seeking input. What exactly suggests that people here are qualified to understand and offer professional advice taking into account all that would be appropriate for a sound financial plan?
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It seemed clear the OP was looking for ideas ... and was planning on taking it slow. The ideas might not be scale able but would at least give independent confirmation, should a pro give similar input. Sort of like being able to be confident of the cost base numbers when one\'s independent calculations and the broker\'s numbers agree.
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\r\n Originally Posted by janus10\r\n \r\n
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... I would be shutting off almost all online activity unless it was research.
\r\nVery odd behavior IMO.
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The flip side of the coin is the Quebec gas station owner who handed off to his "pro" broker. The broker churned though the \$2 million from the business sale in trading fees in a couple of years, despite the family\'s protests of how the stocks selected didn\'t match was he asked for.
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\r\nCheers\r\n
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• \r\n'; // next/previous post info pn[1217561] = "1513825,1217569"; pn[0] = ",1217561"; pn[1217569] = "1217561,1217577"; pn[1217577] = "1217569,1217593"; pn[1217593] = "1217577,1217617"; pn[1217617] = "1217593,1217641"; pn[1217641] = "1217617,1217665"; pn[1217665] = "1217641,1217681"; pn[1217681] = "1217665,1217697"; pn[1217697] = "1217681,1217689"; pn[1217689] = "1217697,1217737"; pn[1217737] = "1217689,1217753"; pn[1217753] = "1217737,1217761"; pn[1217761] = "1217753,1513386"; pn[1513386] = "1217761,1513650"; pn[1513650] = "1513386,1217865"; pn[1217865] = "1513650,1217913"; pn[1217913] = "1217865,1225577"; pn[1225577] = "1217913,1225593"; pn[1225593] = "1225577,1225673"; pn[1225673] = "1225593,1225601"; pn[1225601] = "1225673,1225641"; pn[1225641] = "1225601,1218393"; pn[1218393] = "1225641,1218097"; pn[1218097] = "1218393,1218217"; pn[1218217] = "1218097,1217921"; pn[1217921] = "1218217,1217953"; pn[1217953] = "1217921,1218025"; pn[1218025] = "1217953,1218129"; pn[1218129] = "1218025,1218137"; pn[1218137] = "1218129,1217969"; pn[1217969] = "1218137,1217985"; pn[1217985] = "1217969,1218001"; pn[1218001] = "1217985,1218009"; pn[1218009] = "1218001,1218409"; pn[1218409] = "1218009,1513833"; pn[1513833] = "1218409,1513849"; pn[1513849] = "1513833,1514057"; pn[1514057] = "1513849,1514089"; pn[1514089] = "1514057,1514137"; pn[1514137] = "1514089,1514738"; pn[1514738] = "1514137,1522226"; pn[1522226] = "1514738,1217961"; pn[1217961] = "1522226,1513825"; pn[1513825] = "1217961,1217561"; // cached usernames pu[0] = guestphrase; pu[326305] = "StayThirstyMyFriends"; pu[325033] = "gibor365"; pu[51968] = "My Own Advisor"; pu[160083] = "OnlyMyOpinion"; pu[319298] = "Mukhang pera"; pu[45911] = "lightcycle"; pu[1053] = "OhGreatGuru"; pu[30799] = "dubmac"; pu[32020] = "Eder"; pu[1181] = "humble_pie"; pu[33392] = "jerryhung"; pu[317122] = "mordko"; pu[6462] = "kcowan"; pu[204019] = "janus10"; pu[56581] = "Ag Driver"; pu[45528] = "tygrus"; pu[324746] = "sridharcw"; pu[165551] = "Pluto"; pu[312281] = "TomB19"; pu[967] = "heyjude"; pu[48345] = "amitdi"; pu[53917] = "james4beach"; pu[4832] = "houska"; pu[326970] = "ValMiks10"; pu[336178] = "Riverdale DIY"; pu[28859] = "marina628"; pu[15783] = "Eclectic12"; pu[303497] = "CalgaryPotato"; // -->

1. ^^

in reality, he was a nice man & a smart man to boot, imho he deserved his blessings

.

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