Canadians struggling to save and pay off debt; 38 per cent have no savings

[sags]

High income earners, and the wealthy are always asking themselves, why can't those poor folks just save more. They must be blowing it on cigs and beer.

Considering the average wage is something like 45,000 and you pay 1/2 of it in taxes, it isn't hard to understand how people have trouble saving on 22,000 dollars a year net.

2000 a month isn't all that much to work with.

If two people are working and earning the average salary, they should be able to save. But, in a lot of family units, one person earns the average and one person earns much less than the average.

Bottom line is..............our share of the pie is getting thinner and thinner.

[carverman]

Carve - Did you get into the wine again at midnight because it was the end of the religious holiday? You're repeating your posts within the same thread.

I didnt requote it, as I am trying to minimize my quotes, but look up a few posts, and then go back a couple of pages.

Yes Ma'am..how did you know? I decided to treat myself and got 3 bottles
of Gray Fox "sacremental" wine and right after midnight went at them like
I was dye-ing of some hundred year thirst. First bottle went down good,
second went down easy..and then I managed to log on and my mind went
wild!...my 21 yr old "bad boy" personality was fighting with my 65 year
old "senior's moment"..the momentary lapses..where your mind goes
blank and all you can think of is "Beam me up Scottie..we're finished here!"

Naw, I never revisit figments of my imagination..I'm setting the co-ordinates
for the jump into hyper-internet-galatic-space..
"to infinity!..and beyond!"...hic!

[m3s]

High income earners, and the wealthy are always asking themselves, why can't those poor folks just save more. They must be blowing it on cigs and beer.

Considering the average wage is something like 45,000 and you pay 1/2 of it in taxes, it isn't hard to understand how people have trouble saving on 22,000 dollars a year net.

2000 a month isn't all that much to work with.

$45k is taxed on average 17-23%, hardly half. That's $35-38k, or ~$3k/month. Obviously they are blowing the other $1k/month on booze a partying, as they forgot they even had it and claim it went to taxes

That's not even counting any of the tax credits besides the big personal tax credit everyone gets

That's also just the average salary, which is skewed downward by entrepreneurs, drug dealers etc etc

If I look around at my peers, neighbours, or just people in general, more than 38% can afford to save money based on what they are buying/wasting on consumer debt. Taxes are hardly to blame imo

[carverman]

High income earners, and the wealthy are always asking themselves, why can't those poor folks just save more. They must be blowing it on cigs and beer.

well most of the welfare cases are. It's part of their culture..although the
excise taxes on a carton of cigs + HST here, takes a large chunk out of
their food budget..so it's KD and even that's getting expensive these days,
so a visit to the Food Banks is in order. A cartoon of" Indian smokes"..
a case of Molson's 24..and their good to go as they say.

$2000 a month isn't all that much to work with.

Works for me! Mine is about that each month after taxes. I do all of my
own cooking, don't dine out at all, not even TH or McD's and buy those
$8 bottles of wine. You can do it if you force yourself to..and you can
actually live quite well off $2000 a month.

Now, I must admit, I have to stifle myself walking past those $250 bottles of wine at the LCBO..and choose something within my budget..but I can't help but think of my Frugality Forum friends professing frugality on one hand..
and then doing the opposite with their "frugal" $250 bottles of wine,
at that moment.

Bottom line is..............our share of the pie is getting thinner and thinner.

My ex is eating the last piece of my pie!

[the-royal-mail]

I agree sags. Though I don't consider $45K to be poor -- I consider that to be middle class. However, your excellent point remains. As a middle class earner myself that's why I'm so sensitive to the incessant fee, tax, surcharge and levy increases seemingly at every turn. Prices go up in stores, taxes go up constantly, gas is nearing $1.40 in some parts and salaries aren't keeping pace. But we're supposed to believe their bogus inflation numbers and say that everything's fine, inflation's low. Surrrree.

[carverman]

$That's not even counting any of the tax credits besides the big personal tax credit everyone gets

I presume you are joking here, although I didn't see the smiley that would
indicate that. The tax credits they offer are all smoke and mirrors,
If you add up all the tax credits and personal credits you are allowed on
your own situation then number crunch according to their formulas, then
do some stupid math..if line x is less than line y..then insert $0..
at that point..its $0 for all the time you wasted doing their stupid number
crunching..ie: $12K in personal credits x 16% Fed + 5.05% prov and you
end up with $2520 that you can actually use as a tax credit against your
$30K of taxable income (if line 25 is less than $40,970 or less, FED) and
if line 23 is $37,106 or less (PROV)..
They are not giving the working poor families any breaks here..it's
just half truths to conceal that fact that well over 50% of taxpayers
are in that tax bracket.

As they say..the rich don't pay taxes because they can write off most
of their income as business expenses and the poor on welfare don't
pay any taxes because there simply isn't enough left in any case to
get them through the month..so who's going to pay for those F35 JSFs?

[m3s]

so who's going to pay for those F35 JSFs?

Your choice, you can pay for 65 of them now to replace twice as many money pits, or you can pay much more for them after losing contracts and trying to maintain 30 year old jets for another decade while the liberals do their "fair evaluation" to realize there's no other option

All the big numbers you hear are for the life of the jet, which is likely twice as long as predicted. How much will health care cost over the next 30-40 years?? A lot more than 65 JSF's that's for sure!

How about we reduce the police, the fire department, and the search and rescue while we're at it? Surely the failing US will pick up the slack

[andrewf]

Canada literally can't afford to defend itself with conventional forces. 65 JSFs won't matter. Our options are soft power by cultivating strong diplomatic relationships, or developing a nuclear arsenal. We opted not to go the second route. JSFs are useless for our defense--they are only good for buying the goodwill of our allies by participating in international missions.

We need to replace the aircraft, but let's be real about the situation.

[Plugging Along]

High income earners, and the wealthy are always asking themselves, why can't those poor folks just save more. They must be blowing it on cigs and beer.

Considering the average wage is something like 45,000 and you pay 1/2 of it in taxes, it isn't hard to understand how people have trouble saving on 22,000 dollars a year net.

2000 a month isn't all that much to work with.

If two people are working and earning the average salary, they should be able to save. But, in a lot of family units, one person earns the average and one person earns much less than the average.

Bottom line is..............our share of the pie is getting thinner and thinner.

I do know I have asked why is it that people can't save more. I don't think that the 38% that can't save are just low income earners, I think it comes across all groups, and there are so many factors. The average means nothing. You have students, seniors, people living in small towns, self employed etc. Someone living in small town, making $44K living in a $50K house, is laughing. With averages, you have to assume that if there are 2 people, that they are each getting the average so $88K... otherwise it wouldn't be the average. There are many families that one person makes more than the average, and one person less. Hence, why averages really don't mean much.

I know of a couple they make $150+K between the two of them (no kids), and they are always complaning about not having a lot money for extras, savings for retirement etc. They were worried that if one of them stops working, then things could get tight. This is all while they have gone on their third trip (to warm tropical places), in the last 5 months. I suggested maybe they should reign in their non-discretionary spending. They said, well that would only be the trips, and they only spend a couple of thousand each for each trip, they were all good deals, plus when else will they have this extra time (one of them is not working do to illness).

I know many people that would be considered poor, yet still manage to save. How? Well, they definately have to make different choices. I'm not saying that all poor people make bad choices. I would make a bet that if I took a look at their spending, I would be able to find a way to save a small amount in many of the cases.

I know it can be hard to save when making a low income. We treat savings like a regular bill payment, and when my both my husband and I were not working, we were not able to save, we didn't go into debt either though. One thing I do not understand is if you're income is too low to save, why not find ways to make more income. Don't tell me it's impossible. There are always ways, it just take some creativity, and a lot of hard work.

[m3s]

Canada literally can't afford to defend itself with conventional forces. 65 JSFs won't matter. Our options are soft power by cultivating strong diplomatic relationships, or developing a nuclear arsenal. We opted not to go the second route. JSFs are useless for our defense--they are only good for buying the goodwill of our allies by participating in international missions.

We need to replace the aircraft, but let's be real about the situation.

People have taken far more things into consideration to decide that jets are a requirement, which you agree. The debate is only if they are the best purchase for the job. Canada spends practically nothing % GDP on military compared to other countries while we still defend other countries as well as ourselves during unconventional warfare. Yes you need more jets for conventional warfare, but the 1970's are over and you also need more cops to establish peace in a lawless city..

The presence of a single roaming cop car keeps the street crime at bay in a stable area. Yet a few F35's are useless for defense of a stable airspace? I guess we don't need to host world events such as the Olympics and G20 either. With the current handfull of F-18s, we manage to not only defend Canada but also the USA when their fleets have been grounded and additional countries as part of NATO air policing.

Besides diplomacy it's also technology, information, training, knowledge, intel, skills, surveillance, interoperability, economy and the list goes on. How about we just shut down NORAD and NATO contributions and all the other platforms and equipment you probably don't even know exists. Jets offer far more capabilities than you have considered. No other platform can provide a sensor with as much range/speed/flexibility etc

Let's just get some nucs, and police our air sovereignty with that? I'm sure that would be cheaper than 65 jets and whenever someone breaks the rules, we'll nuc their home without any sensor int, without radio or visual contact and without any warning. How about the cops just shoot anyone who speeds too? Then maybe more Canadians would save money instead of buying cars and jets eh?