opinions sought on studded winter tires

[the-royal-mail]

With the winter freezing rain of southern Ontario, I enjoyed winter tires for many a slippery season. Further west, I am again considering winter tires. There is deep snow here and they do a poor job of cleaning the roads & my parking lot in a timely manner. One option is studs. I understand these are illegal in certain areas. I do remove my winter tires in the spring, but tire storage is a big problem for me, which is why I'm still in the consideration stage. I also do not have the ability or facilities or tools to change tires on my own. So I think rims are kind of a waste of money and am thinking of just getting the tires.

Comments? Opinions?

[ghostryder]

I had BFG winter slaloms (studded) on our '98 civic until that car got t-boned by a drunk.

I LOVED them.

We put Michelins (not studded) on the new civic, and quite frankly I would rather have the BFG's (studded or not). I think they are better suited to the conditions I face.

I really, really, really, really miss the studded tires.

[Potato]

I think rims are a good idea -- they're no harder to store than tires alone, and they'll pay off after 4-5 years of change-overs to the same rim, and does make changeovers at least in theory a do-it-yourself job (or a do-it-with-your-well-equipped-friend) if you procrastinate one year and can't get into the shop.

Studs are more for ice than for snow or slush, so what will you be facing more of where you are?

If your winter is going to be comparable to a southern Ontario one (a mix of everything, but not the severe -40 temperatures) and you don't want to mess around with changeovers, then I'd recommend just getting a set of Nokian WRs for all-year use.

[mode3sour]

If you're getting dedicated winter tires you might as well get winter rims. You have to balance the wheels every time you swap rubber and half the time dudes will scratch your rims. You can actually change your wheels with the tools in your trunk or pay for the 10 minute labor. I find I can do it myself faster than a shop lineup and CC transaction

Studs actually reduce your traction in conditions other than ice by holding the rubber off the road. Slamming on your brakes on dry/wet pavement can be scary because your traction is so much worse than you have learned to expect and because you drive faster in these conditions.

I advise against studs unless you drive on logging roads or country roads. The rubber on winter tires already do an amazing job with all the sipping and deep aggressive jagged treads. Winter tires even do pretty good on ice by not letting any water film stay between the rubber/ice. I switched from summers to winters this week in freezing rain/snow and our work trucks have studs so I got to feel them all. The performance summers were absolute suicide and I managed only by not stopping on hills. The studs are noticeably better when there's no sand/salt but you can still manage fine on winters

I pull a Ski Doo out back roads with a FWD old Honda and prefer not to run studs. I mainly just don't like the noise and don't see the need when they plaster the roads with sand. I don't run studs on my sled either but that's another story

[brad]

Studs actually reduce your traction in conditions other than ice by holding the rubber off the road.

Ditto on that. Friends of mine in Vermont had a bad accident on a clear road in winter wearing studded tires; the braking distance was longer than they had bargained for. Studs are really dangerous in that regard, even winter bicycle tires exhibit the same problem and they advise you to deflate them slightly whenever you're riding on clear pavement or through snow. The thing to remember is that a large portion of your winter driving will be on clear roads.

If it were me I'd go with something like Michelin X-ice tires, which have softer rubber and grip well in both ice and snow.

The key thing to keep in mind is that all-seasons lose their grip in cold temperatures because the rubber gets too hard. "All season" tires are appropriate in climates where winters are mild...in Canada that would mean southwest B.C. Anywhere else and you're taking risks (not just your life but those of others on the road) if you're not using snow tires.

[furgy]

Studs are old technology , the new soft rubber siped tires have as good or better all around traction than studded tires.

It's even getting harder to find tire shops that will stud tires for you , and where I live it costs about $40-$50 to have each tire studded , not worth it.

Studs will be illegal everywhere eventually.

Go with good tires , Blizzak , Michelin X , etc.

As for the rims , it will cost less for 4 rims than to have 4 tires studded , Canadian Tire has rims starting at $20.

[the-royal-mail]

Thanks for all the comments.

There is a cost to have tires installed/balanced, and the cost is the same regardless if the wheels are on rims or not. Rims are heavy, ugly and cost money. They offer me no value, because as I said initially I do not have the facilities, tools or ability to change the wheels on my own. The car has to go to the shop and the balancing cost is the same whether on rims or not. Let's please not get hung up on this whole rim discussion. I am asking about the tires themselves from a stud perspective.

The reason I am asking about studs is because I am looking around the used local websites for 2nd hand tires. It is hard to find my size and the only set I can find at the moment is for studded winter tires. I would never pay to get them put in but if they come installed on the winter tires at 50% less than the cost of new [unstudded] winter tires, is that not a bargain? I am just wondering if there's any harm in this or if I should just keep looking for regular [unstudded] winter tires.

[ghostryder]

Studs are old technology , the new soft rubber siped tires have as good or better all around traction than studded tires.

Bullcrap. I have Michelins now. I want my studded BFG's back. They were way better.

It's even getting harder to find tire shops that will stud tires for you , and where I live it costs about $40-$50 to have each tire studded , not worth it.

??? Where I live it costs $10 a tire.

Studs will be illegal everywhere eventually.

evidence? How many jurisdictions have banned studs in the last 20 years? Studded tires today are not the same as they were in the 70's.

Go with good tires , Blizzak , Michelin X , etc.

See above. I wish I had gotten BFG's again. But I heard a lot of people raving about Michelins etc. and though that studless would be just as good. They are not.



http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/pre-20...tiretests.html

"Nordstrom says the tests reveal that "in spite of the ongoing improvement of non-studded tires, still the studded tire is quite superior under [icy and snowy] conditions ..."
80 per cent of Swedes use studded tires in winter

That kind of evidence has been persuasive to safety-conscious Swedes. Off the test track, and on the roads, nearly 80 per cent of Swedes use studded tires in winter, and estimates are that has cut road accidents almost in half.

But what about the downside, excessive road wear? As in Ontario, Sweden briefly harboured a movement to ban studded tires for that very reason. But instead of banning studs the Swedes improved them. Nordstrom reports that new tire studs weigh half as much as the old studs, with the result that road wear is now an insignificant problem.

"I would say that if you have a ban I would recommend that you no longer ban [studded tires]," Nordstrom says, "but rather regulate them so that you get the proper type of studs so they don't harm the pavement. "