COIP - 2007 Tax Shelter Obligations - Page 11
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Thread: COIP - 2007 Tax Shelter Obligations

  1. #101
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    COIP Shelter

    I was wondering if anybody received a letter from CRA and agreed to a settlement?

    Thank you


  2. #102
    Senior Member sags's Avatar
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    People should pay the settlement offer from CRA to stop the accumulation of interest and possible seizure of assets.

    In 2014, the CRA recovered all amounts owing by way of a lien on his property.

    http://business.financialpost.com/le...ges-court-says

    If people wish to participate in a lawsuit to recover their money they can still do that, although it doesn't look like there is much chance of winning in tax court.

    Similar tax reduction schemes have been deemed fraudulent in several Federal Courts and upheld by the Supreme Court.
    Last edited by sags; 2017-05-09 at 05:41 AM.
    Someone planted a tree a long time ago so I can sit in the shade.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by sags View Post
    People should pay the settlement offer from CRA to stop the accumulation of interest and possible seizure of assets.

    In 2014, the CRA recovered all amounts owing by way of a lien on his property.

    http://business.financialpost.com/le...ges-court-says

    If people wish to participate in a lawsuit to recover their money they can still do that, although it doesn't look like there is much chance of winning in tax court.

    Similar tax reduction schemes have been deemed fraudulent in several Federal Courts and upheld by the Supreme Court.
    You don't have to sign the offer of settlement, but it is advisable to pay off the CRA to avoid accumulating any more interest. The common misconception is that if you don't sign the offer of settlement, the next step is to fight the CRA on your own. That is not true. What it means is that the next step, test cases will be randomly selected to go to court. Whether you will be selected as a test case, I don't know what is the chance. Will have to ask the CRA about that. Once paid, you can apply for taxpayer interest relief. Whether you qualify will depend on how you fill out the form. May even have to talk to an account about that.

    I am still on the fence about signing the waiver and have gotten two extensions to make my decision. One thing I am certain, I will not take part in the law suit. I believe it's a scam. From COIP to Profitable Giving to Justice Pharma, they are all the same people. Preying on your desperation because of your inability to pay off what you owe. You are better off trying to work out a payment plan with the CRA and throwing away good money into this mess.

    I wish all of you the best of luck.

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  5. #104
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    I wholeheartedly agree with Pissedoffmofo. Why anyone would join the Profitable giving (PGC) lawsuit is baffling. Do you keep getting e-mails from PGC or Justice Pharma? Ask yourself: how did they get your e-mail address? The only way is from COIP sharing their donor database containing contact info with PGC, so as Pissedoff said, it's all the same horrible people preying on our fears. They know that there are a large number of donors who most likely can't afford to pay what they owe so they are trying to milk them for a few more dollars with the hope that the lawsuit will prevail, but offer no guarantees. I find it disgusting that these promoters are trying to make more money from the same donors who they lied to and scammed. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I hope CRA investigates and goes after the promoters, we shall see. Good luck to all.

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casio View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree with Pissedoffmofo. Why anyone would join the Profitable giving (PGC) lawsuit is baffling. Do you keep getting e-mails from PGC or Justice Pharma? Ask yourself: how did they get your e-mail address? The only way is from COIP sharing their donor database containing contact info with PGC, so as Pissedoff said, it's all the same horrible people preying on our fears. They know that there are a large number of donors who most likely can't afford to pay what they owe so they are trying to milk them for a few more dollars with the hope that the lawsuit will prevail, but offer no guarantees. I find it disgusting that these promoters are trying to make more money from the same donors who they lied to and scammed. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I hope CRA investigates and goes after the promoters, we shall see. Good luck to all.
    I was never contacted by PGC, though the person who got me into this is my coworker and has been emailing me to join the law suit. I don't want to be put in a position that I'll get double teamed into signing up for this crap. I also don't want to be in the position that I may throw someone out the window! LOL

    What's also infuriating is that they are saying that your loan isn't settled due to rogue promoters and in order to settle you have to pay the equivalent of 13 % of ur loan to do so or risk the collection agency coming after you! It's only if you settle the loan that you can take part in the law suit, which will cost you even more money.

    Guys and girls, DONT DO IT!!!!

    While I have no comment about the loan, I can say that you can benefit from the lawsuit without taking part in it. If for some miraculous reason, the lawsuit is successful, you can still "settle" your loan later.
    Your main priority should be to pay back the CRA to avoid anymore interests. Everything else is irrelevant.

    Once again, good luck !

  7. #106
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    Collections

    If you get contacted by collections, send them a letter to stop all contact, dispute the amount owing and tell them to take you to court. If they follow through and actually move fwd. with a court process (thousands of participants) I doubt that any judge will side with the sleazy promoters of these programs, despite there being contracts. CRA has stripped them of their charitable donations status, programs have been deemed a sham, further audits by CRA, took consumer money already and are wanting more (was never supposed to be more obey from consumer), etc., etc.

  8. #107
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    Just to weigh in on a few points raised here:

    1) The reason that we’re all in this mess is because the people who ran the original programs did not follow through on their commitments, and by doing so invalidated the structure of the whole donation scheme. That’s why the CRA has reassessed everyone – because as of right now, for those who haven’t compliantly settled, the CRA is right… your current situation doesn’t comply with the law and so you are not entitled to the tax credits that they gave you.

    Think of it like this: when the programs originally structure the approach that they sold you on what they had on paper as a ‘plan’ was good. Unfortunately they didn’t follow through with what they said they would, and so things went south and now it doesn’t meet the requirements to be applicable for tax credits. Not all of the promotors were rotten from the start – it turn out that a lot of them actually had a lot of their own money in the programs and got screwed just like everyone else. A lot of them got family, friend, and coworkers (like Pissedoffmofo) to sign on because they believed in it, not because they were trying to screw anyone...

    2) What Justice Pharma seems to do is pick up where the programs failed and actually allow people to bring their situation back in line with the Canadian tax code, thereby making them eligible to keep their tax credits. Unfortunately the CRA is applying a blanket approach to everyone, which requires that everyone who is actually able to keep their credits band together and prove in court that they have met the requirements to do so. This ‘banding together’ is the PGC Class Defence.

    To the point about Justice charging 13 cents on the dollar… yes, that seems to be true but that is less than 10% of what you actually owe to the programs + the CRA. But it’s a business… why would they not charge something? I’m surprised that they don’t charge more, actually.

    I get that nobody wants to put more money into this and that everyone is rightfully distrustful of all parties right now… but it really boils down to whether the approach put forth by Justice Pharma actually works. It’s proven 100% effective in settling the loan – there’s no argument there. As for the Class Defence, we can only wait and see.

    To the point about the promotors not being able to win in court if they come after you to collect on the loan, unfortunately them being stripped of charitable status (etc.) does not play in because the contract they have with you does not relate to your tax credits (read it carefully). It’s sad and unfair, but if you don’t settle your debt (by either repaying it 100% in cash, of by paying 13% through Justice Pharma) you still have an outstanding loan which can be called in once the contracts expire. From what I have read the programs are owed over 1 Billion dollars – why would they not call in the loans at some point? Anyways, it seems pretty simple to me – even if the Class Defence were to not work you’re still 87% ahead if you settle your debt through Justice Pharma – or is my math wrong? Can someone weigh in?

    3) To the point about people not having to join the Class Defence to benefit from a positive decision, this again is sadly not exactly the case. The Class Defence seems to be (from what I have read) only applicable to people who meet specific criteria (the same criteria required to join it in the first place). Namely they must have compliantly settled their debt through the Justice Pharma program – because the approach to settlement that they use has been reviewed by tax lawyers and is in line with the Canadian tax code. I can’t speak to whether the CRA, after being defeated in tax court, will open up its coffers and say “anyone who wants to keep your giant tax credits just send us X, Y, Z and you’re good! … it seems unlikely, though, as their whole approach to date has been to try to get back as much money as possible =\

    4) Also, as a final point… I’m pretty sure that I read somewhere that the people who started Justice Pharma are themselves caught in this mess, having invested a lot of money into the original programs because their structure – as advertised – was sound. They created Justice Pharma because nobody else was doing anything and all Canadian participants were going to take a gigantic financial hit if a solution wasn’t found.

    Anyways, just my two cents. I’m the kind of person that does his research in situations like these so I’ve read through the entirety of the PGC and Justice Pharma websites, along with as much else as I can get my hands on. I’m happy to chat about any aspect of this, and feel free to disagree with what I write – but just please attack my points, not me…

    Thanks

  9. #108
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    Collections

    · Promoters provided an outline of plan

    · Pay the prepaid interest on a loan to buy medicine units

    · Value of loan is based on fair market value of medicine units (not actual money spent by the promoters)

    · No other cash outlay required by participants to satisfy the plan

    · A few years later the promoters contact participants indicating that we owe more money to complete the plan (either cash or medicine units) – not following through on plan

    · The value they stated we owed was a fraction of what is identified as a loan amount in the contracts

    · At that time we were advised by the now absent FAST group to respond in writing disputing the loan and advise them to take us to court

    · No response received to letter sent

    · Since that time the CRA has deemed the programs to be shams, they no longer have charitable donation status and are no longer considered to be a legal tax shelter (yes, this will be ultimately decided in tax court and the tax shelter info is all over the contracts)



    If the promoters start calling in loans, given the CIRCUMSTANCES, I have a hard time understanding how a judge would deem the contracts and promissory notes enforceable (especially the full value of the so-called “loan” in the contracts – again, the promoters never spent any money, they used the prepaid interest we gave them). Contracts are deemed not enforceable all the time in the court system.

    CIRCUMSTANCES for an individual:

    · Paid the CRA back the amounts in dispute
    · Have received no monetary value in participating in the program(s) (lost money – prepaid interest already provided to promoters)
    · Promoters themselves acknowledged that the loan could be settled for an amount that was a fraction of what the loan amount indicates in contract (money or medicine units)
    · No charitable donation status according to CRA
    · All of this is exponentially compounded if the lawsuit fails and it is determined that the promoters were not operating a legal tax shelter
    · And given all this, even if it is decided that there is enforceability, I don’t believe it will be considered reasonable, for sake of example, for the promoters to declare that $20 will settle the loan and many years later say it will take $1000 (interest aside)

    These are all things that would be considered. Does the judge award a decision in favor of the promoters (who are trying to line their pockets, snub their nose to the government tax system, and who would clearly be trying to take advantage of taxpayers) or thousands of individuals who got caught up in a well-intended plan gone wrong, admitted mistakes by paying back CRA and who have already been cheated out of money by the promoters.


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