What should be included in a Basic Living.Wage? - Page 2
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Thread: What should be included in a Basic Living.Wage?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    Is your definition of "basic" the same as others?
    Not that I am terribly on board with the basic income idea....but NEEDS would be something in the range of this:

    Shelter - $500 a month. That should get you shared accommodations in most towns.
    Utilities - $200 a month. Should cover hydro and water, particularly with shared accommodations.
    Food - $400 a month. That is quite generous for one. No restaurants. I rarely eat out.
    No Cable, TV, computer or Internet. Go to your local library. These are wants and not needs.
    Phone - $15-20 a month. You are required to be contactable for most lines of work. $15 to $20 will get you a cheap cell phone plan/land line.
    Clothes - $20 a month will get your a used article of clothing once a month. I spend IF that a month of clothes.
    Transit - $100 a month. This should get your a bus pass in most towns with transit. I used to get along just fine as a kid with a bike and transit.
    Gym/Health - $0 I used to volunteer at the YMCA for a free membership
    Benefits/Dental - $50 a month. I used to pay out of pocket for annual dental cleaning and save up the rest for major stuff. $250 a year for a cleaning and chip fills.


    That's about $1300 right off the top of my head for minimum living. No one NEEDS to live in down town Toronto in a condo eating avocado toast and lattes wearing a hemp sweater and bamboo sunglasses.

    The current minimum wage in Ontario ($11.40?) has you living pay cheque to pay cheque after taxes off that with no hiccups.

    Is minimum wage behind the times? Sure. Should it be jacked up substantially in a short amount of time like the Liberals are intending to do? I don't think so. Should it be increase? Yes.

    Last edited by Ag Driver; 2017-06-07 at 11:40 AM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member humble_pie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ag Driver View Post
    Not that I am terribly on board with the basic income idea....but NEEDS would be something in the range of this:

    Shelter - $500 a month. That should get you shared accommodations in most towns.
    Utilities - $200 a month. Should cover hydro and water, particularly with shared accommodations.
    Food - $400 a month. That is quite generous for one. No restaurants. I rarely eat out.
    No Cable, TV, computer or Internet. Go to your local library. These are wants and not needs.
    Phone - $15-20 a month. You are required to be contactable for most lines of work. $15 to $20 will get you a cheap cell phone plan/land line.
    Clothes - $20 a month will get your a used article of clothing once a month. I spend IF that a month of clothes.
    Transit - $100 a month. This should get your a bus pass in most towns with transit. I used to get along just fine as a kid with a bike and transit.
    Gym/Health - $0 I used to volunteer at the YMCA for a free membership
    Benefits/Dental - $50 a month. I used to pay out of pocket for annual dental cleaning and save up the rest for major stuff. $250 a year for a cleaning and chip fills.


    That's about $1300 right off the top of my head for minimum living. No one NEEDS to live in down town Toronto in a condo eating avocado toast and lattes wearing a hemp sweater and bamboo sunglasses.

    The current minimum wage in Ontario ($11.40?) has you living pay cheque to pay cheque after taxes off that with no hiccups.

    Is minimum wage behind the times? Sure. Should it be jacked up substantially in a short amount of time likemy the Liberals are intending to do? I don't think so. Should it be increase? Yes.



    here is something i can recognize. Sensible, grounded, leaving no one out while entitling no one.

    especially like the part about increase minimum wage at reasonable speed, not suddenly or rapidly

    poster is perhaps a bit too strict on the library for all internet though. There are free wifi zones in all canadian city cores nowadays. Even a strict budget could manage zone with tablet.

    my municipal library's wifi range extends outside the library into its pretty park setting almost 100 metres. Sit outside among the flowering magnolias & peonies on a sunny gorgeous june day like today + e-mail/internet for free = heaven on earth.
    Last edited by humble_pie; 2017-06-07 at 01:05 PM.

  3. #13
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    I believe this is the crux of the problem with UBI, which I will leave my thoughts on the at for anger time. Many people can't distinguish between needs and wants, and think basic is an entitlement. When my spouse was laid off at the birth of our second child while I was on mat leave, and only 3 days severance, we went down to about 17% of our normal income. I learned adjusted very quickly what a want, vs a need was, and have learned since then, to get our spending down.

    Food - $50/person/week $200 a month is very generous as a need. I was able to do $500/month for 2 kids, 3 adults including toiletries and cleaning supplies. This is not wasting food, buying on sale, nothing processed. this covered off all the food groups and included buying in season and cooking what was on sale. I got my groceries down at the time from $1200 to $500 with some work. Now, it's high because I work so much.

    Housing- $600 including utlitites. I don't think it is a need to have your own space, one can share a place or live in a basement suite.

    Transportation $100 for a bus pass. A person who is not working doesn't need a car.

    Phone $20. I believe CRTA just said communication is a basic need. I think a basic phone for communication is good enough. One can use public wifi and the library for everything else.

    So by my calculations, $920 so $1000 after tax for good measure.
    On a 'smart' device, please excuse autocorrect/when letters are missing.

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  5. #14
    Senior Member sags's Avatar
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    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

    John Kenneth Galbraith
    Someone planted a tree a long time ago so I can sit in the shade.

  6. #15
    Senior Member Moneytoo's Avatar
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    Yeah it's nice to have the liberals to threaten that if the internet is not included in the basic package - the poor will have no choice but to steal wifi passwords from the rich

  7. #16
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    I feel that one missing component in all these discussions is education costs ,I believe that if most low income people had access to free education they could in turn advance themselves and have the ability to earn more money.

  8. #17
    Senior Member olivaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ag Driver View Post
    Not that I am terribly on board with the basic income idea....but NEEDS would be something in the range of this:

    Shelter - $500 a month. That should get you shared accommodations in most towns.
    Utilities - $200 a month. Should cover hydro and water, particularly with shared accommodations.
    Food - $400 a month. That is quite generous for one. No restaurants. I rarely eat out.
    No Cable, TV, computer or Internet. Go to your local library. These are wants and not needs.
    Phone - $15-20 a month. You are required to be contactable for most lines of work. $15 to $20 will get you a cheap cell phone plan/land line.
    Clothes - $20 a month will get your a used article of clothing once a month. I spend IF that a month of clothes.
    Transit - $100 a month. This should get your a bus pass in most towns with transit. I used to get along just fine as a kid with a bike and transit.
    Gym/Health - $0 I used to volunteer at the YMCA for a free membership
    Benefits/Dental - $50 a month. I used to pay out of pocket for annual dental cleaning and save up the rest for major stuff. $250 a year for a cleaning and chip fills.
    I would add prescription drugs, eyeglasses, childcare expenses, education and textbooks, counselling and special treatment etc.
    If you have something to say - then say.

  9. #18
    Senior Member tygrus's Avatar
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    In 3rd world countries, people struggle to live on a couple bucks a day, no clean water, health care, medicine, but you notice they all have cell phones.

    My wife is from the Philippines and a few years ago put together a care basket of food and western stuffs to send home. Lots of it was presidents choice copycat brands from superstore. Well the recipients weren't happy, they were offended. They thought they need to live a first world lifestyle in a 3rd world country. That was the last box we ever sent them.

    See how needs and wants often conflict when you get a few bucks in your pocket. My guess is anyone who gets UBI will mismanage it and be poor anyway.
    Last edited by tygrus; 2017-06-07 at 03:03 PM.

  10. #19
    Senior Member humble_pie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marina628 View Post
    I feel that one missing component in all these discussions is education costs ,I believe that if most low income people had access to free education they could in turn advance themselves and have the ability to earn more money.

    you put your finger on it.

    boyfriend of one of my children studied IT at college, has a decent well-paying quasi gummint job. But he'd much rather have been a doctor.

    he would have made an outstanding doctor imho. The thing was, in his background it was unheard of. Rural agricultural ancestors. Extremely poor. Father left school in grade 4 & was able to launch & operate - all his life - a successful meat wholesale business. The son & his brother grew up working saturdays & summers in the family business.

    studying to be a doctor was not ever within this family's ken. Not in a million years. Instead the emphasis was all Study something you can master fast, for quick entry to a well-paying white collar job by 22 years of age.

    there were several things missing from this Hurry-through-trade-school approach. The lack of money meant that the opportunity to dream, the opportunity to grow went missing.

    my daughter found out that he was musical. She gave him her 2nd violin. He took lessons. He loves the instrument. They play together.

    but no one will be able, now, to take him back to age 15 or 16 & give him that little extra space & encouragement that might have boosted him into university science, then onwards to med school. Growing up, he never heard such a voice, that such a thing could even be possible.

    these days, he sometimes watches medical shows on TV. He would have wanted to be a surgeon, he says.

  11. #20
    Senior Member tygrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sags View Post
    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

    John Kenneth Galbraith
    Dont you mean self reliance

    Why do the worlds poorest sit in the slums of the most expensive cities. Why not move out where its cheaper and you can get a piece of land to support yourself.


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