Are there ethical considerations to early retirement?

[realist]

Let's see ... the deficit proves people aren't paying enough?

I guess paying two or three times for one set of helicopters, over-expensive "green" electricity rates, mega-city consolidation to the highest wage scale or "opps ... there's a billion dollars missing" aren't adding to the deficit, right?

Electricity is actually a good example of where we are not paying enough, but there is are whole other threads on that topic so I won't belabor that here.

[Eclectic12]

Electricity is actually a good example of where we are not paying enough, but there is are whole other threads on that topic so I won't belabor that here.

Really?

So you honestly believe electricity costs more that the $0.80 per kilowatt hour that solar producers were contracted to be paid for twenty years in Ontario? I'd have thought the cut to $0.54 per kilowatt hour for new contracts proved otherwise.

Another question is whether paying the same company for electricity *not* generated at natural gas plants while paying higher rates for the wind farm generated variety is needed? Bear in mind that Ontario has been an net exporter of electricity for the last six years.

Or a generator company turning their generator off and then on again unnecessarily during the day - is that really worth an extra $19 million in payments?


I could go on but to put my original point another way - the deficit is not just what services are used or are not used.


Cheers

[brad]

Really? So you honestly believe electricity costs more that the $0.80 per kilowatt hour that solar producers were contracted to be paid for twenty years in Ontario?

It depends on what you mean by the cost of electricity. There are many externalities that aren't included in the price of electricity, just as there are many externalities that are not reflected in the price of gasoline -- the cost of wars to protect our access to oil in the Middle East, the health costs related to smog and other air pollutants, etc. Some studies have attempted to calculate the true costs of electricity and gasoline and they are much higher than the prices we are paying. But they're effectively subsidized because the economy would probably grind to a halt if we were forced to pay those prices directly rather than indirectly through our taxes as we do now. There are also issues of equity and fairness, as well as ripple effects: if the price of gasoline were 3 times higher than it is now, what would that do to the price of food (due to higher transport costs), how would it affect low-income people who have to drive to their jobs, etc.). Same goes for electricity -- you can balance electricity price increases with income tax decreases as you build externalities back into the cost, but you still have to be careful to avoid regressive effects on the poorest households who don't pay much income tax now anyway.

[balexis]

Most people are not that good at understanding how much they actually get from government services, or worse they under value the things they don’t personally use but assume that *everyone* thinks that the things they use are the most important. They number of government services that indirectly benefit people who have no idea that they even exist is significant.
Cheers

The government does not make it easy for people to realize the true value of many services such as health care and education (which are two darn big budget items). When I go to the hospital, I would like to get a detailled bill such as:
Treatment cost: 15 000$
Payment from Society: 15 000$
---
Total due: 0.00$

Same for education:
Undergrad studies in Foo: 25 000$
Payment from Society: 15 000$
---
Total due: 10 000$

I bet that in and of itself would make many people who keep on complaining about how much taxes they pay to just shut up (or to complain doctors and teachers earn too much).

[kcowan]

We get an electric bill from CFE every 2 months here in PV, Mexico:

Basic 150 kw at 0.737= 110.56
Intermediate 150kw at 1,237= 185.55
Excess 794kw at 2.61= 2027.44
Total 2368.44
IVA 16% 378.95
Billed 2747.39
Government subsidy 1603.30
Cost of production 3971.74

so about 40% subsidy. And posted on every bill received.

[balexis]

kcowan: Nice! I'd love to see this in Quebec as well.

[Daniel A.]

I gather that is Mexico kcowan.

[Sherlock]

It's interesting to ask whether it's ethically wrong to retire early, but what about those who work past 65, thereby denying those positions to younger people who may need them more, isn't that just as wrong? Whether they're refusing to retire because they didn't plan for their retirement and are now nearing retirement age and finding out they don't have enough to retire on, or whether it's because they think they'll be bored in retirement so they keep on working, in either case isn't that just as selfish as those who retire early and live off taxes?

[Eclectic12]

It depends on what you mean by the cost of electricity. There are many externalities that aren't included in the price of electricity, [ ...]

And some of the internal costs don't need to be there, such as waste and abuse.

I don't see how paying other people to buy our electricity (Ontario is a net exporter of electricity for the last six years) is helping.
http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...take-our-power

http://opinion.financialpost.com/201...rating-losses/


The bottom line is that as long as the "official" costs are accepted carte blanche, not only won't the cost be known but one can be sure there will be lots of unnecessary items included.


Cheers

[Eclectic12]

It's interesting to ask whether it's ethically wrong to retire early, but what about those who work past 65, thereby denying those positions to younger people who may need them more, isn't that just as wrong? Whether they're refusing to retire because they didn't plan for their retirement and are now nearing retirement age and finding out they don't have enough to retire on, or whether it's because they think they'll be bored in retirement so they keep on working, in either case isn't that just as selfish as those who retire early and live off taxes?

Or what about the lottery winner who won $10 million but kept his day job on the manufacturing line.


Cheers