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  1. #31
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    +1 ^

    I find some people agonize much more over their cell phone contract than their investment accounts.

    Hidden Content - Working on a $1 million portfolio and $30k per year from it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    Dump and pray is a very common investment strategy...explains why common returns are so poor. Never understood why people will spend hours following their favourite sports teams, tv shows, movies, etc. To the point where they can quote things line per line, pull out obscure facts, etc. Yet, when it comes to their financial stability, they don't want to spend any effort and just want to collect millions in the end.
    You have a point, but in practice that is the way things are. I know that when I was working, I paid very little attention to our investments. I was just too busy working, at times 7am-11pm except for a couple of afternoons when I spent a couple of hours participating in a sport. When RRSP time came, I bought something and so did my wife- usually on advice of bank or full service brokerage we had back then. But in the end, our retirement nest egg was sufficient. I am sure it could have been better if I had paid more attention, but then maybe my business or other activities may have suffered. Since retirement, I have a paid a lot more attention. I made it my new "job" and we have done quite well!

    For someone with little time to learn about investing, putting money into a couple of balanced funds plus some GICS may not be a bad thing to do. Best to buy through an on-line brokerage. Something like 25% GIC ladder, 35% MAW104 (has some US exposure) and 40% TDB622 (TD Monthly income fund) would provide some fixed income for safety plus two balanced funds (that also include some fixed income). I wouldn't count on much more than 2% REAL growth (4% at present inflation rates), but you should at least beat inflation. Taxes make a difference, so put the GICs in registered accounts.

    Another option would be to consider a couch potato portfolio that suits you: http://canadiancouchpotato.com/model-portfolios-2/

    In the meantime, read about investing when you can so you will be in a position to manage your investments down the road.
    Last edited by agent99; 2017-05-19 at 11:04 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by james4beach View Post
    5 years is not an appropriate time frame for these kinds of investments. 10 years is probably the bare minimum time horizon, and more realistically should be 15 to 20 years minimum.

    Over a 15+ year time frame, for a balanced fund or portfolio of mixed stocks & bonds, I think you can probably see between 4% to 6% annual returns (my opinion).
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine88 View Post
    Awesome, thanks james4beach, that's perfect bc i'm the type of investor who wants to dump in their money and forget about it until retirement and have it grow to beat inflation and grow at least some so as not to kick oneself in terms of basic opportunity loss, so your input more aligns with my couchpotatoness lol.
    Have done a lot of reading on investments,savings, good investment sites, books etc recently as a hobby and interest as am retired too now. FYI Here is a great site where you can plug in your asset mixes, time period and it will calculate the return % and SD%. ie a 25% = wt of TSX, S&P, CDN bonds and EAFE is ~ 5%, SD 10% from 2000-2016. The periodic table of investments tool is pretty neat too ( yearly returns of each category)

    I can't post links yet apparently but the site is Stingy Investor . com and under Tools select Asset mixer.

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    ... Never understood why people will spend hours following their favourite sports teams, tv shows, movies, etc. To the point where they can quote things line per line, pull out obscure facts, etc. Yet, when it comes to their financial stability, they don't want to spend any effort and just want to collect millions in the end.
    ... You have a point, but in practice that is the way things are. I know that when I was working, I paid very little attention to our investments. I was just too busy working, at times 7am-11pm except for a couple of afternoons ...
    It does not sound like you fit the "spend hours following their sports teams, tv shows, movies etc. To the point where they can quote thing line for line ...". JAG knows for sure but what I read as part of his point is that people *have* the time yet chose to spend it differently.

    Many people who tell me they are "too busy" have plenty of time to learn/participate in equally challenging hobbies but for whatever reason are not willing to admit that their priorities/willingness is the barrier.


    Cheers

  6. #35
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    I've noticed the same, people just choose to not make time for their finances and investments.

    I have many friends who love puzzles and play complex board games and card games. Investment is a puzzle too... to be honest it's a hobby for me and I find it full of challenges, puzzles, and a healthy dose of random luck.

  7. #36
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    ^^ + ^ ... you see having time for sports, tv shows, movies, etc. provides entertainment... and spending enormous amount of time shopping new car, gadget, toy, whatever will kill boredom, provide enjoyment, etc. as for other hobbies like puzzles, and games, etc. All of these are sure things. OTOH, spending time to learn how to invest, only to see your money deplete on your investment (never a sure thing) is never pleasurable. I can see why people avoid taking the time to learn how to invest - aside from the usual fodder excuses of not having time, too complicated, etc.
    Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized.-A. Einstein

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaver101 View Post
    ^^ + ^ ... you see having time for sports, tv shows, movies, etc. provides entertainment... and spending enormous amount of time shopping new car, gadget, toy, whatever will kill boredom, provide enjoyment, etc. as for other hobbies like puzzles, and games, etc. All of these are sure things. OTOH, spending time to learn how to invest, only to see your money deplete on your investment (never a sure thing) is never pleasurable. I can see why people avoid taking the time to learn how to invest - aside from the usual fodder excuses of not having time, too complicated, etc.
    As someone who has absolutely zero knowledge on investing and is currently just trying to learn the most basic stuff like specific jargon and has avoided being more informed and involved with investing previously, it is a struggle. You're absolutely right, a lot of the learning process does feel complicated and dry/boring and can be frustrating when a lot is self teaching/from books as opposed to something interactive like a classroom. It's definitely not made easier to get into when the end result and your 'satisfaction' can be years away. I do construction, because I love building something and then being able to stand back, look at my finished product, and enjoy the result. You can do that on a daily basis most of the time. With this, it's delayed gratification in the extreme in a world that promotes the opposite. Try not to be too hard on people who don't get involved. It really may just seem to daunting for them. And I realize places like these aren't meant to be a teaching forum so much as a place for more learnt people to exchange ideas, but it's appreciated when all of you do take the time to help. Seeing people work together to help others shed their ignorance really makes you want to learn more.

    I'm looking at starting my way through the list of 8 books to read stickied on the front page. Should make for some interesting reading at my cabin this summer.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPB View Post
    As someone who has absolutely zero knowledge on investing and is currently just trying to learn the most basic stuff like specific jargon and has avoided being more informed and involved with investing previously, it is a struggle. You're absolutely right, a lot of the learning process does feel complicated and dry/boring and can be frustrating when a lot is self teaching/from books as opposed to something interactive like a classroom. It's definitely not made easier to get into when the end result and your 'satisfaction' can be years away. I do construction, because I love building something and then being able to stand back, look at my finished product, and enjoy the result. You can do that on a daily basis most of the time. With this, it's delayed gratification in the extreme in a world that promotes the opposite. Try not to be too hard on people who don't get involved. It really may just seem to daunting for them. And I realize places like these aren't meant to be a teaching forum so much as a place for more learnt people to exchange ideas, but it's appreciated when all of you do take the time to help. Seeing people work together to help others shed their ignorance really makes you want to learn more.

    I'm looking at starting my way through the list of 8 books to read stickied on the front page. Should make for some interesting reading at my cabin this summer.
    ... my post was meant quite the opposite or contrary to posts #31, 34 and 35 and agreeing with what you have posted (particularly the bolded part). Nevertheless, congrats on starting the investment learning process! Gotta start somewhere.
    Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized.-A. Einstein

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by james4beach View Post
    I've noticed the same, people just choose to not make time for their finances and investments.

    I have many friends who love puzzles and play complex board games and card games. Investment is a puzzle too... to be honest it's a hobby for me and I find it full of challenges, puzzles, and a healthy dose of random luck.
    I think the bold portion of your comment explains why many people choose to avoid the stock market. The volatility and unpredictability of the market can turn a healthy hobby into a stressful, obsessive addiction. I think it's fair to say that for most people, investing in themselves and their work will make them rich, and when they accumulated enough savings and near retirement they can turn to fixed-income vehicles such as annuities.

    If the bottom line is that, despite how much you know and how much you learn, dumb luck plays a major role in the stock market, then all the detailed rhetoric eventually boils down to gobbledygook. Throwing some money into a "diversified portfolio" and hoping and praying for a positive return starts to feel more and more like gambling -- and perhaps playing board games instead just might ultimately be better investment for most.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPB View Post
    As someone who has absolutely zero knowledge on investing and is currently just trying to learn the most basic stuff like specific jargon and has avoided being more informed and involved with investing previously, it is a struggle ...
    I guess that's part of the personality piece ... I like learning stuff, whether it works for investments, deciding whether to hire a mechanic versus DIY, to make sure I won't be bamboozled by someone who sounds like they know what they are talking about or just to have trivia for a conversation starter.

    Another difference is that I try to learn what I can, when I can - even if it's a simple conversation between relatives. Others of a different bent seem to look at what they know versus the larger part they don't know then decide it is too complicated/not going to pay off anytime soon then give up.


    Quote Originally Posted by DPB View Post
    ... You're absolutely right, a lot of the learning process does feel complicated and dry/boring and can be frustrating when a lot is self teaching/from books as opposed to something interactive like a classroom. It's definitely not made easier to get into when the end result and your 'satisfaction' can be years away ...
    While I understand your point - there's a lot more resources as well as choice available now (ex. CMF, YouTube videos, investment discussion clubs, paper trading accounts, more intro books) to try to line up one's learning style as best as one can versus in the '80's. I could ask my uncle questions ... assuming he wasn't at his broker's office, watching the ticker versus today where one can have updates on one's computer/phone.

    Don't get me wrong - I am not downplaying your point so much as pointing out there are a lot more choices out there now.

    As for the "satisfaction can be years away" - for me, it's in the here and now. Reading about split shares in the late '90's meant another tool in the toolbox ... which to me, is satisfaction enough. I've used it several times since then with each use bringing more satisfaction.

    Or investing half an hour researching alternatives to GICs with similar guarantees meant the questions asked confirmed the specific product had minimal limitations. My tenant asked the question "what's available with a similar guarantee", took what was offered then was wondering why his payout for essentially the same thing was 1/3 less than I was paid. I didn't brag or beat him over the head about it ... but it was certainly satisfying to know I had avoided a limitation by asking the right question.


    Quote Originally Posted by DPB View Post
    ... Try not to be too hard on people who don't get involved. It really may just seem to daunting for them ...
    If they don't want to and say so - no problem. The typical scenario is "I don't like paying so much for mediocre/bad returns - can you help me learn?" Then with some basic intro stuff is covered, all the rationales that don't apply are brought out (ex. I have no time to learn as I'm going out five times this week to watch playoff games at bars this week).

    I've learned to skip everything, give a few pointers to web article or books to start with then they can ask questions. Of the few that come back - only two have wanted to discuss how their learning is going or the material - the rest just want tips.


    Quote Originally Posted by DPB View Post
    ... And I realize places like these aren't meant to be a teaching forum so much as a place for more learnt people to exchange ideas, but it's appreciated when all of you do take the time to help.
    While there is a lot of detailed stuff where people can dive too deep too quickly into the nuances - there is lots of teaching going on here.
    http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showth...uot-on-the-TSX
    http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showth...etirement-mode
    http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showth...inimizing-Fees
    http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showth...ion-about-fees
    http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showth...rac-e-Transfer
    http://canadianmoneyforum.com/showth...(RRSP-amp-RRP)


    Just make sure to indicate what is new and what the question is .... also don't be surprised if questions come as a twenty year old with no ongoing expenses versus a married person with mortgage/bills/car payments versus a widowed retiree will have different priorites/things to watch out for.


    Quote Originally Posted by DPB View Post
    ... I'm looking at starting my way through the list of 8 books to read stickied on the front page. Should make for some interesting reading at my cabin this summer.
    I hope you enjoy one or more of them. Don't forget that despite some of the nuances etc., there like will be good discussion if you were to post a thread about "read this bit about XYZ, I'm learning so while I get X, what's this YZ?"


    Cheers


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