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Thread: Universal basic income

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sags View Post
    Capitalism will continue to it's logical demise.
    I think true Capitalism is not there any more..If US govt folks believed in Capitalism , they would not have intervened in 2008-09 and save the big banks.. they would have left it to the markets..


  2. #72
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    I read sags' life story, it's pretty common.

    My life story was a little different. I went to school in a depression time, there were no jobs. The school used to have a program where they brought in industry workers to tell us what life would be like upon graduation. Their main line was "we're not hiring, we don't plan on hiring, and I may get laid off next week". The university cancelled the course halfway through the year and gave us full credit for it.

    When I graduated, I was one of only two in my class (nearly 700 grads in my class) to find a job. It was part time contract work for the government. My boss, seeing my skills, got me more work, but still I was only a contractor. Because I was good at what I did, much of my time was spent in office politics as many of the remaining employees realized the threat I posed to them (there were constant layoffs, and the remaining employees were mostly the deadwood who couldn't get jobs in the private sector).

    After a couple of years, my entire sector was shut down ( I think I went through 12 reorganizations and 9 different offices in those years) and I was laid off. I had made contacts while in government, so I decided to start my own company. My company did well, mainly because I changed what it was doing and evolved over the years to keep supplying my clients with what they needed. Had I tried to do the same thing as I did when I started, I probably wouldn't have lasted as demand for that service is minimal these days.

    My company did well, I lived modestly and managed to get to the point where I was living mortgage free for a few years. It was at this time when I realized living debt free, while nice, had some serious drawbacks, so I started looking into investing. Then I sustianed an injury which left me unable to work for more than two years. We had just moved to a larger house, so I was no longer mortgage free. I'd just started to get into real estate investing so, before the banks cut me off of credit, I immediately went out and bout more rentals putting myself in more debt than I'd ever had.

    i also started to buy some stock. I picked companies I understood, it happened to be another downturn in the economy, so the market was on a downward trend. Many of my purchases continued to lose money over the next several months, but my research said they were good companies, so I held on.

    During those injured years, my company took a large hit to its business (downturn in the economy and I was unable to guide it properly is not a good combination), things didn't look good. My rentals brought in enough to cover their costs as well as my personal mortgage, so I didn't lose my house. Because I was self employed, I didn't qualify for any benefits or insurance, didn't have any family support either (I was told to get a job and support my wife and kids), as I'd never had the traditional job which family didn't understand. I wasn't able to function long enough to hold a job, but that didn't matter.

    My credit card bills started to grow after all my savings were eaten up even though we lived very frugally. My investments (and real estate) had recovered to the point where, if I sold, I'd be back to zero but with no other income or savings. Eventually I recovered enough that I could do some work on a part time basis. I got in and worked as hard as I could, taking contracts I normally would have passed on if I'd had a choice.

    After a couple years of doing junk contracts, I remember I was working on one particularly bad contract, I pulled up my investment portfolio, something I hadn't done in a while. I was shocked to learn that my portfolio was earning more money in a week than I was earning on a month of this contract. My real estate holdings had slowly grown, and I didn't even notice that the banks had gotten a little more friendly about loaning me money. I'd paid off the credit cards, but had poured excess (not that there was much) into investment. Because of the real estate, I was in way more debt than I ever had been (on paper), but the cash flow from everything meant I was basically earning more outside of my company than the company easy paying me. Aside from money borrowed for investing, I was debt free once again and hadn't even realized it. Even today I'm still a bit paranoid and frugal because of my experience, I don't think that'll ever leave, just like those who lived through the depression.

    These days, I now run several companies (more on paper than hands on), I still invest and I buy real estate (averaging 4.5 new additions per year over the past few). I don't aim for the high end rentals, I supply the higher side of the low end affordable housing. I do that by buying places cheap to keep the costs down. I rarely have any vacancies as my places are nicer than average and relatively inexpensive.

    While im not in the 33B category, I'd probably be classified as being in the rich category (I own a lot of real estate, several companies, no personal debt, etc.). You'd probably feel very justified in taking stuff away from me looking at things from the outside as I "have" more than others.

    Of course, if you took from me, than many would lose their homes and jobs, because few people (as this board shows) can find and buy real estate the same way as I do. Few can start and run companies as I found when I was injured and others tried to run it in my place. Not everyone has the skills and personality to do what I do.

    I admit I minimize my taxes, but I also know that I spend that money stimulating the economy (wages, equipment, contractors, etc), I don't get to keep it (you have to understand how the tax system works, you either spend money supporting society and have a choice where it's spent, or the government will spend the money for you where it thinks it should be spent, either way you don't keep the money). Also, you need to spend more money in some cases (charity donations for example are only a partial write off) than you would be taxed for directly.

    Now, after a rather long winded story, the great thing about Canada or many other countries is...

    Anyone can travel the same road.

    The sad part is, most want their cake and the ability to eat it too. They want the job withthe defined benefits at the end. They want their company to do the same thing every year...bring back the horse and buggy taxi, it what I want to do, just like gramps did.

    Sorry, life doesn't work like that, you have to change and adapt or get left behind. This isn't capitalism, it's reality. I don't know anyone personally who got rich off a paycheque, I didn't get rich off a paycheque. I've never had a real "job", even though I grew up being taught that was the only way...but nothing stopped me from becoming rich.

    Of the rich friends I know, nothing stopped them either. Of the people I know who aren't rich however, I see one common thread standing in their way...themselves. They are too afraid to even try. They want it handed to them. I've offered to help many people buy a rental, invest in the market, whatever. I post publicly here how I do it, yet in all the years I've done this, I know two people who've taken me up on the offer and the second one only did it last year. The first is a partner of mine now in a different business.

    So, in my opinion, you can talk about life being unfair and unequal, but you should still ask yourself what exactly you've done to change it and what is really holding you back before coming after the assets of those who've maybe already answered that question.
    I'm not JustAGuy (without spaces), or Donald, or <insert name here>.

  3. #73
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    We live in a hybrid socialist-capitalist system right now and its pulling closer to socialism everyday, which is increasing our debt and and size of government enourmosly and unsustainably. It's also an almost impossible path to reverse as well.

    There has always been and always will be wealth inequality. The nice thing about capitalism is it gives everyone an opportunity to pursue more wealth if desired.

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  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    ...

    My life story was a little different. I went to school in a depression time, there were no jobs. The school used to have a program where they brought in industry workers to tell us what life would be like upon graduation. Their main line was "we're not hiring, we don't plan on hiring, and I may get laid off next week". The university cancelled the course halfway through the year and gave us full credit for it. ....
    ... before I (or if) make additional comments to your post (of which I know someone following similar to your path - you deal with what you have been given), have you considered writing a book?
    Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized.-A. Einstein

  6. #75
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    ^ PS: Btw, I'm not being sarcastic about a book relative to your long winded story. In fact, your story is one of extreme interest where you were able to rise back to your feet and beyond despite all the setbacks. Very inspiring.
    Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized.-A. Einstein

  7. #76
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    I've been accused of being a writer many times on this board, when I promote that website with the book on real estate investing, however I don't really see myself as a writer. The real author also lead a similar lifestyle, he and his wife were injured in a car accident.

    Also, I've kind of become cynical of inspiring anyone. In all the years I've tried to help people change their lives, I know less than a handful who've ever even attempted it. It's easier to sit back and complain. It gets depressing after a while. Writing a book no one would read, and even fewer would act upon doesn't sound like a worthwhile endeavour, not to mention that many would feel I did it for ego gratification anyway.

    I spend time teaching my kids, they hate the stories, but they've also lived them and are turning out to be the real beneficiaries of it. I'm not too worried that they'll end up in trouble that they can't handle themselves.
    I'm not JustAGuy (without spaces), or Donald, or <insert name here>.

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by sags View Post
    The rich guy owns the bar. He took everyone's money and is drinking at a five star resort in Mexico.
    Isn't it great we live in a society where anyone can open a bar, get rich, and go drink in on a beach somewhere?

  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5Lgreenback View Post
    Isn't it great we live in a society where anyone can open a bar, get rich, and go drink in on a beach somewhere?
    It is. Unfortunately, it's turning into a society where too many people think that the person that opened the bar makes "too much", so they now demand that he give them his hard earned money because that's "fair".

    People no longer want the same opportunity...they want the same outcome without doing the work.
    Last edited by bass player; 2017-05-20 at 12:50 PM.

  10. #79
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    I find that there is far too much of the 'blaming others or the Government for my troubles'. People need the think about what they are doing, forget about living only in the present, think about the longer term, and move forward with their lives.

    If someone is lazy, lacks initiative, blames others, and cannot be bothered to move forward with some training or education then that person will most likely end up very unhappy and unfulfilled in a low paying service industry job or worse. And they may blame everyone else for their situation. Initiative, ambition, and some basic common sense will move most people forward.

  11. #80
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    For me, the inspiration was being dead broke and having a family to support. The "pain" encouraged me to make changes as quickly as possible, it also inspired me to be "right" in my choices as I couldn't afford to be wrong (in any sense of the word afford).

    Today I have tenants that fall behind on their rent, then get the government to bail them out. They don't fear losing their home, so if they blow the rent money elsewhere, no one's the worse off. I didn't have that luxury, if I didn't make my payments, I lost everything...of course now I'm a greedy landlord living off the poor, some on this board feel I should be cutting tenants a break on when the rent is due, like the bank would cut me a deal if I didn't pay the mortgage.

    While I don't recommend anyone should have to go through what I did, I actually like the fact that we have social assistance (even though I couldn't qualify personally for bureaucratic reasons like being self employed, owning a house, etc., so it doesn't help "everyone"), the existing system certainly doesn't inspire people to change.

    My life inspired me to learn about investing, and making passive income and as quickly as possible. Of course others would probably just give up, some animals won't move an inch just to get more comfortable.

    I'm not JustAGuy (without spaces), or Donald, or <insert name here>.

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