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Thread: Universal basic income

  1. #21
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    For the most part our governments are not giving these people our money they are giving these people money they borrowed against the national debt. Debt in many instances is inflationary.

    What Friedman proved is that inflation is caused by money supply and only money supply. This government program sounds a lot like supplying money to me.


  2. #22
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    Yes, its inflationary but above all the program is designed to disincentivise work, to remove the fear and consequences of not doing anything useful, to make parasitism easier.

    Terrible idea.

  3. #23
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    No one has mentioned the real problem with a basic income for everyone.
    It is not the amount you give them, it is what they spend and how they spend it.
    Some will spend it in one day and then come back pleading poverty and wanting everyone else to help again.
    Think we have seen this scenario before.

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordko View Post
    Yes, its inflationary but above all the program is designed to disincentivise work, to remove the fear and consequences of not doing anything useful, to make parasitism easier.

    Terrible idea.
    How is it worse than welfare? Do you acknowledge that welfare represents a much greater disincentive to work? Are you also aware that what studies have been done of basic income schemes show that the impact to workforce participation is modest?

    You have a mental picture of what basic income will do. There is a good chance it does not align with reality. Have some humility.

  6. #25
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    You realize that this theory is not exactly new. The original basis of social credit was a similar idea, but it too failed in practice...just like communism/socialism which looks great on paper, but doesn't work in practice.
    I'm not JustAGuy (without spaces), or Donald, or <insert name here>.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordko View Post
    Yes, its inflationary but above all the program is designed to disincentivise work, to remove the fear and consequences of not doing anything useful, to make parasitism easier.

    Terrible idea.
    Actually, I was reading about the Finnish pilot project, where there were a number of people who were able to try various entrepreneurial things because they would no longer have to worry about the income causing their existing benefits to shrink or disappear while they were getting started. And if something like the gig economy becomes more prevalent, some sort of base layer or safety net may be needed to prevent workers from being ground to pieces while corporate employers enjoy the benefits of fractional labour.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRaven View Post
    Actually, I was reading about the Finnish pilot project, where there were a number of people who were able to try various entrepreneurial things because they would no longer have to worry about the income causing their existing benefits to shrink or disappear while they were getting started.
    There will always be exceptions that the government will cite to make you feel better about them taking your money and giving it to someone else less deserving of it (did not earn it).

    All I can say is that my primary reason for working was a pay cheque. If something replaced that paycheque, I would not have worked. It doesn't get more simple then that to understand.

    Sure, some will want more and will be willing to work for it, but way too many will be like me, who would adjust their lifestyle to live within this income level so as to enjoy this new found freedom...to basically do nothing productive for society. That is what I do now, but in my case, I saved for it. The people that will get this money may have done a lot of things, but it is unlikely saving was not one of them. I don't think giving them free money will improve their views on that.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    You realize that this theory is not exactly new. The original basis of social credit was a similar idea, but it too failed in practice...just like communism/socialism which looks great on paper, but doesn't work in practice.
    You would have to be more specific. Social credit is a term that has been used to describe many things.

    Regardless, there have been a handful of studies that indicate that the policy is relatively benign to work incentives. If there is a controversy, that is an argument for further study. We need to figure this out before automation starts causing major social upheaval.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewf View Post
    How is it worse than welfare? Do you acknowledge that welfare represents a much greater disincentive to work? Are you also aware that what studies have been done of basic income schemes show that the impact to workforce participation is modest?

    You have a mental picture of what basic income will do. There is a good chance it does not align with reality. Have some humility.
    Welfare has a stigma associated with it. You have to go through hoops to get it and at least pretend you are seeking work.

    I am not aware of any "studies", nor do I care for social "studies" all that much. Would be happy to observe a 30 year experiment as long as it covers the whole country and that country is very far away. Very familiar with the socialist experiment and not all that keen to go through that again.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptsyEagle View Post
    There will always be exceptions that the government will cite to make you feel better about them taking your money and giving it to someone else less deserving of it (did not earn it).

    All I can say is that my primary reason for working was a pay cheque. If something replaced that paycheque, I would not have worked. It doesn't get more simple then that to understand.

    Sure, some will want more and will be willing to work for it, but way too many will be like me, who would adjust their lifestyle to live within this income level so as to enjoy this new found freedom...to basically do nothing productive for society. That is what I do now, but in my case, I saved for it. The people that will get this money may have done a lot of things, but it is unlikely saving was not one of them. I don't think giving them free money will improve their views on that.


    that was then ^^ but this is now

    the way i look at it, the time is coming when there wlll be no work.

    meanwhile the population is increasing. Cohorts of young males are the most likely to take up destructive activities, even bush league warfare, when normal avenues of development & advancement are blocked.

    i don't see how we can spend too much time tut-tutting over the disappearance of yesterday's values of working hard, being thrifty, saving for one's individual retirement. In the world that's coming, we will have to learn how to gain satisfaction, preserve civilization & its ethical social order, find dignity, happiness, even honour - all without work & without even being able to use money as a measuring stick.

    to me, finding out what other countries are doing is illuminating. Germany reduced its work week yet the economy is thriving. Finland's experiments increased entrepreneurship.

    .

    ego borago gaudia semper ago

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