Paying for housecleaning

[kcowan]

I do think there's a danger of what one might call "normative creep" -- there's a social expectation that at some point in your life you settle down, buy a house, have some kids, get a car, etc. and if "having a housekeeper" creeps into that set of expectations then people might do it simply because it's the socially expected thing to do, not because they have thought it through and made a conscious decision.

The creep has already happened. Now kids want their own car/house etc. right away. For my parents, a car was a luxury.

I remember renting a room in Ottawa with a small fridge and a 2-burner stovetop. I had graduated but was working at NRC for the summer. Ate a lot of stuff out of cans. Now a microwave would be essential. Our 3rd house had a dishwasher but it was our 4th house that had AC.

So yes lifestyle creep has become the norm. Used to be that you did not go to University if you could not afford it. No student loans.

BTW we interview houskeepers more carefuly than new employees and only accept them through referrals. We never clean up before they arrive. They are truly treated as a part of our family. And we do not look down on people that do their own chores. It is always a lifestyle choice.

We currently have 2 residences with 900 to 1000 sq.ft. for each of us. That is another lifestyle choice and helps justify the housekeepers. (Our parents family home had 200 sq.ft for each of us. How is that for creep?)

[Toronto.gal]

a painting askew on the wall?

Off-topic, or maybe not as it deals with $$$: would like to hear opinions from art-connoisseurs here, of what you thought about the $USD119.9 million 'The Scream' sold for yesterday.

http://news.yahoo.com/scream-fetches...000711889.html

[kcowan]

Off-topic, or maybe not as it deals with $$$: would like to hear opinions from art-connoisseurs here, of what you thought about the $USD119.9 million 'The Scream' sold for yesterday.

http://news.yahoo.com/scream-fetches...000711889.html

It is relevant to the notion that value in the wallets of the buyer! I appreciate fine art but I am not a collector.

OTOH it might be an asset class that is safe. I was surprised to see vintage cars get hit so badly by the recession.

[Square Root]

i am not sure if "lifestyle creep" properly portrays the fact that over the last 60-70 years North American standards of living have greatly improved. Good thing. Who woudn't want a better life if it was affordable?

[MoneyGal]

Absolutely! But doesn't one's POV change if you are talking about yourself - and you've made it clear that regular housekeeping is eminently affordable for you, SR - versus talking about "Canadians at large"?

[Toronto.gal]

regular housekeeping is eminently affordable for you, SR - versus talking about "Canadians at large"?

It's affordable for you too! But we're talking about others, not us this time!

[MoneyGal]

Well, I do remember my grandmother laughingly talking about how she had to wait 82 years to get a microwave. People tend to get the things that are generally available for their peers and economic class. I don't know anyone who hasn't (for example) graduated beyond a wringer-washer, although that's certainly what my mother grew up with. And Elizabeth Warren's The Two-Income Trap deconstructs the argument that people are "spending more" on (for example) cars and home appliances than they were a generation ago. (Again, U.S. data, so some level of incompatibility with Canada, but still.)

But if housecleaning becomes "the norm," then people won't think about whether it is "affordable" or not. Aren't we seeing that with (for example) real estate in Canada's largest markets? People don't stop to calculate what they can actually afford and what is workable. Instead there is bickering about how the middle class is being hollowed out as a result of real wage stagnation. And I'd never argue against the economic data about wage stagnation, but at the same time: you know how much is coming into your bank account every month, it isn't a mystery. It seems to me that "people" in general need to scale back the lifestyle improvements and learn to live on a little less. Less prepared food, less purchased services for the home, smaller homes, lower-key lifestyles. But ... I'm not intending to stand on a soapbox and I can't proselytize to anyone but my own kids, ultimately.

[HaroldCrump]

Instead there is bickering about how the middle class is being hollowed out as a result of real wage stagnation. And I'd never argue against the economic data about wage stagnation, but at the same time: you know how much is coming into your bank account every month, it isn't a mystery.

I personally do not buy the wage stagnation logic specifically w.r.t. housing prices.
It is not the wages that are out of whack - it is the housing prices.
Any govt. mandated wage appreciation at this point, ceteris paribus, will cause even further massive inflation in housing prices.

[Toronto.gal]

It seems to me that "people" in general need to scale back the lifestyle improvements and learn to live on a little less. Less prepared food, less purchased services for the home, smaller homes, lower-key lifestyles.

I could not agree with you more MG, and it's not at all about not living/wanting a 'better life'; a richly one even if one could afford it, but some live an excessively & lackadaisical lifestyle, which is neither productive nor healthy.

By the way, no microwave in my place and not because we can't afford it, lol, I just like to cook. Seriously, I have a different reason for not liking it.

Brad: you taught me something new as I could have sworn that a dishwasher used more energy, so thank you, I'll be washing less dishes by hand now & will have more free time!

[brad]

Brad: you taught me something new as I could have sworn that a dishwasher used more energy, so thank you, I'll be washing less dishes by hand now & will have more free time!

Dishwashers are definitely more water- and energy-efficiency, but I'm curious about the payback period: at our low electricity rates and the fact that we don't pay for water, I have a feeling it's going to take 15 years for this dishwasher I just bought to pay for itself out of the savings. And by then I'll have to buy a new one. ;-)