Weighing the pros and cons of how deep to have roots in Canada at 65+ - Page 2
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Thread: Weighing the pros and cons of how deep to have roots in Canada at 65+

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by indexxx View Post
    Friend of mine built a house in a village area of Thailand for $35K and is retired there living on his CPP etc. Lots of expats where he is. Had a bit of money from a condo sale in Richmond a few years ago- maybe $160K but that's it. He's lived in Thailand for years, only coming back to Canada to work for half the year to top up his CPP- loves it there and lives cheap. I'd like to do the same thing in some out of the way corner of the Med or the Caribbean. Might only make Penticton though... but hot and quiet is good enough for me.
    This is one of the big choices for me - work overseas or work here? Maybe it'll have to be both. In any case I will have to work. The question is where. And doing what.

    Glad you mentioned Penticton. The other question is where to make my home base in Canada. I will start another thread about that. I have fond memories of summers at Penticton Lake. But why stay in BC? I hear Trois Rivieres in PQ and New Brunswick and St. John are lovely. I won't have to worry about the weather Oct 15->April 15, because I will be in Mongolia or Mozambique.


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by twa2w View Post
    Keeping an apt or address here may not work. The government can easily keep track of when you exited and entered the country. That information is shared between departments. It may also be shared with the province in the future, negating your health coverage.
    Fraud is a criminal offense. But I hear the jails in Canada are quite warm although lack of sunlight may be a problem.
    Thank you for your insights.

    My reading tells me that land crossings to/from USA are indeed monitored and there is *talk* of doing the same with airports in the future. As far as I know unless and until Canada gets a national ID system knowledge and enforcement is increased what you are talking about is not happening. I mean if you are talking about tracking a terrorist or someone accused of missing his child support payments then the big guns come in. Until then I am not convinced that you are correct.

    For now my plan is to be back in Canada for 183 days per year. I have read nowhere than any more than that is legally required. It used to be (I think) that there was a checklist of whether one is connected enough to Canada. Now, again just as far as I know and understand it is very simple - are you physically present in Canada for 183 days per year. Whether brief trips (under 30 days?) to USA within that period deduct that amount I do not know. They probably do. But I hope not because I really like Louisiana, Florida, Texas, and New Mexico. I just want to get in a car on the open road, explore the huge variety of climates and cultures in USA. And bring back the practice of hitchhiking (with me as the geezer patron).

    Upon what do you base your assumption that immigration records are shared with other gov't departments? We have pretty strict privacy laws in Canada I thought.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sags View Post
    I have thought about it. We have about $60,000 of our income that is guaranteed every year and could live quite well somewhere else.

    The problem is family. We don't have the heart to leave our son and grandson back in Canada.

    Now if they could come with us........but it wouldn't be to Asia. Too many terrorist groups and unstable governments.

    Maybe the countryside of Italy or Greece, but I think the cost of living is higher there than in Canada.

    I have always thought I would really enjoy living in Las Vegas and spending my time playing slot tournaments.

    Lots of casinos means lots of free drinks, cheap good food and always something to see and do.
    Too many terrorist groups in Asia? It is true that statistically Thailand and Philippines have born the biggest brunt of jihadis after Israel. But I wouldn't be surprised if Canada gets a Syrian 'event' soon. At least in USA you can own a gun to protect yourself and your property.

    I think unstable governments have some advantages for the visitor. Singapore is very stable but aside from good value food courts, being vegetarian-friendly and having an excellent public transport system, plus being outrageously clean -- I can't stand the place for more than a week. I take the bus over the bridge to Malaysia where locals are much more easier going. Accommodation is outrageously expensive in Singapore. A British friend was paying $1000 (USD!) for a room in a shared house.

    A retired in Thailand businessman from Alberta loves Nevada. I found the mood in Las Vegas depressing - a lot of poverty compared to GVRD. Mind you I see a lot of street people in Vancouver and beyond now too. Eating out is so much cheaper in USA than Canada. I am not a gambler but Nevada is great for a cheap holiday - just sit on your AC room and read books.

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermesHermes View Post
    I am essentially a nomad,a 'rootless cosmopolitan' Guilty as charged. If I have to settle down I hang out an address at my hammock. I live hand to mouth and wherever I can derive maximum benefit. I don't subscribe to the concept of citizen except that passports have been required for a couple of centuries at least. For me the government is a landlord. If I don't like the terms of tenancy, I move. The only difference between me and an international corporation taking advantage of the system of incorporation in tax shelters and varying laws and practices is I am honest about it. And I am very much a 'small fry'.

    Seized pirate to Alexander the Great: ' "What do you mean by seizing the whole earth; because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you who does it with a great fleet are styled emperor"

    If we must turn this into an ethical debate: Who is hurt by no flag waving?
    The big criminals hang the little criminals.

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    I take umbrage at that Nelley. ;-)

    As far as I know I haven't broken any laws. Maybe some social standards, yes.

    My no absolutes attitude has always been as follows...

    1. No initiation of force - 99.9%
    2. Personal responsibility - 90%
    3. Private property - 80%

    I admit I have slacked off on some of these as senility is seeping into m brain and arthritis into my joints. But I continue to believe and practice a 'live and let live' policy.
    Last edited by HermesHermes; 2017-04-07 at 08:31 PM.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermesHermes View Post
    ... For now my plan is to be back in Canada for 183 days per year....
    The 183 days is applicable only to eligibility for health care. It has nothing to do with OAS. You have to have been "ordinarily resident" in Canada for 40 years between the ages of 18 and 65 to qualify for full OAS. Considering you say you have not filed income taxes or applied for health care cards you may have difficulty proving you have any qualifying years of residency.

    I can't decide if you are a troll or just a parasitic idiot.

    PS. I stand corrected. In the OAS application form you are not required to include periods of absence of 6 months or less from your "residence history".
    Last edited by OhGreatGuru; 2017-04-08 at 10:10 PM.

  8. #17
    Senior Member sags's Avatar
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    I love your wandering ways. Thought of being a pirate or railway hobo a lot in my younger days.

    But alas, the free spirit has the same stifling drawback as the "free man" concept.

    Government operates on a "you don't pay........you don't get" ideology when it comes to OAS and CPP.

    As the old song goes............

    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose

    And nothin' ain't worth nothin' but it's free
    Last edited by sags; 2017-04-08 at 12:54 AM.
    Someone planted a tree a long time ago so I can sit in the shade.

  9. #18
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    Land cand air crossings into the USA are tracked both ways. Air travel out to other countries may not be tracked as carefully , but returning to Canada is. The onus would be on you to prove when you left, if you were audited.
    Yes we have privacy laws but they do not prevent sharing of information among departments of the federal government. As far as the law goes, the government is one entity.
    You appear to qualify for full OAS at age 65 and if you are living in Canada. You would qualify for the GIS.
    Your GIS is stopped if you leave Canada for more than 6 consecutive months or fail to fileca Canadian return.
    Health coverage varies by province but in Ontario you can be away 212 days in any 12 month period and maintain coverage.
    Last edited by twa2w; 2017-04-08 at 01:07 AM.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sags View Post
    I have thought about it. We have about $60,000 of our income that is guaranteed every year and could live quite well somewhere else.

    The problem is family. We don't have the heart to leave our son and grandson back in Canada.

    Now if they could come with us........but it wouldn't be to Asia. Too many terrorist groups and unstable governments.

    Maybe the countryside of Italy or Greece, but I think the cost of living is higher there than in Canada.

    .
    I also wouldn't go to Asia, just don't like Asian culture, food.mentality....
    I'd like to retire in Southern Spain .
    and sag, imho, you are mistaken about cost of living in Europe.... Living in Canada is very overvalued... check numbeo.com (you can compare 2 cities by hundreds of parameters ).



    For example very nice North Italian town of Brescia comparing with (not the most expensive London, ON - I think you live there)
    You would need around 3,938.12C$ (2,758.97€) in Brescia to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,500.00C$ in London (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Cost of Living Plus Rent Index to compare cost of living. This assumes net earnings (after income tax).


    Or my favorite place Malaga
    You would need around 3,380.58C$ (2,368.37€) in Malaga to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,500.00C$ in London (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Cost of Living Plus Rent Index to compare cost of living. This assumes net earnings (after income tax)
    In Andalusia , for long term, for 200-250 EUR you can rent not only apartment, but also townhouse.... Can you compare it with our prices? If you fully retired, rent you house and go for 3-4 months
    Last edited by gibor365; 2017-04-08 at 02:50 AM.

  11. #20
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    My, my, I should be paid for stirring up some interest on this board!

    Quote Originally Posted by OhGreatGuru View Post
    The 183 days is applicable only to eligibility for health care. It has nothing to do with OAS. You have to have been "ordinarily resident" in Canada for 40 years between the ages of 18 and 65 to qualify for full OAS. Considering you say you have not filed income taxes or applied for health care cards you may have difficulty proving you have any qualifying years of residency.

    I can't decide if you are a troll or just a parasitic idiot.
    There is always the possibility that I am a parasitic troll, or neither. Maybe I work for CRA or Immigration Canada, the Toronto Sun newspaper, the Fraser Institute or the Communist Party of Belgium. Maybe this is a personal research project for one of Justin Trudeau's assistants. Does it matter? Facts are facts.

    I am familiar with the gov't rules. I have read the websites.

    Back to my hypothetical personal situation. Did I say I hadn't filed income taxes? I certainly have, not every year however. Ditto for health care insurance.

    My questions are very simple. Who on this board knows the following, best from personal experience...

    Once I know the rules and once I have understood them I might even do more than the minimum.

    1. Upon whom is the onus to prove the 40 years of residency for OAS? The applicant or the government?

    2. If the person applying for GIS must prove residency how is it done - rent receipts, bank accounts, car insurance, ATM withdrawals, hospital admissions, WHAT?

    3. How is residency defined for OAS eligibility at 65, GIC eligibility at application, and GIS continuing in the future? My understanding is that is based purely on one thing -- one's body being within the territorial limits of the nation of Canada for 183 days per year. Nothing else. If you say you live in the bottom of a lake in a paper bag like one of Monty Python's Yorkshiremen, that's good enough. But maybe I am wrong.

    4. Who checks entries/exits to/from Canada? Not maybe, sort of, possibly, but actually, definitely and all the time, since year X. Or not.

    5. Is the info from #5 available to those who administer OAS and GIC?

    6. If it is, how?

    Getting all amy records might for me, it might work against me. But first I need to know my facts, their facts and where they intersect. Then proceed from there. Then knowing what is required thereafter I collect (or not) as much information on my pre-retirement years by every avenue possible. Or at least doable -- worthwhile financially and time-wise. Then if challenged and I am offered X% less on OAS or am reused for GIS I have all my documents in order to say 'You are wrong and here is the proof.' I tell you one thing for sure -- for now on I keep records on anything related to travel, health and money.

    For all I know talking frankly about this publicly is just opening up a can of worms, and the safest bet is to just say nothing and see what happens. But I don't want to risk it. I want to be prepared for the worst and for a fight. Individuals and businesses do that all the top with CRA on tax matters. Wouldn't retirement benefits for some Schmuck be the same? You get armed with information, you try to negotiate a settlement if there are problems, and then if push comes to shove you 'go to war.' The only problem is those who decide and issue the cheques have unlimited resources.

    These must all have been established in court cases (civil and criminal). So, maybe I have to ask a lawyer. I just thought that maybe someone on this board...

    a. travelled a lot overseas
    b. had a mickey mouse cash business some years
    c. didn't file taxes every year
    d. is planning his no savings retirement
    e. will get virtually no CCP
    f. doesn't want to stay in Canada anymore than absolutely essential

    So, to clarify and repeat, I am asking these questions of anyone who had an unusual situation vis-a-vis residency, pre or post-retirement has a toehold in Canada and collects GIC. Or they applied and were refused. Or they were accepted and later refused. Or had it reduced.

    I am trying to determine the size and placement of my toe in the toehold.


    Like some Caribbean nations, Canada sells citizenships. Rich people from Hong Kong do something clever all the time. I am not commenting here on the morality of doing that. They are told 'you must invest X 100s of thousands of dollars in category Y and you get a shoe in for permanent residency.' Can I learn something from that that could benefit me? Yes, in theory anyway.

    I know a guy who formally gave up his Canadian residency and he got less of each OAS and CPP because he expatriated during his working years. He just accepted whatever they decided. Actually he found out much after his retirement age. Out of curiosity he enquired and applied. He was missing something and got a couple of years retroactive payments and future payments. It wasn't like the government of Canada chased him down to offer anything. Funny thing is he owes low six figures to CRA and he has no effect on his collecting OAS and CPP. Can I learn something from that that could benefit me? Yes, in theory anyway.

    I am just asking for the facts for how the little guy can use the system to his advantage too.


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