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Snowbirds: Who checks how many months in Canada in order to qualify for GIC?

9K views 33 replies 16 participants last post by  OhGreatGuru 
#1 ·
What with ATMS how do we know if some snowbirds aren't spending 8 or 10 or 12 months in Peru or Thailand? I also don't understand why they can't collect even if they are. They will be less of a burden to the healthcare system if they stay outside of Canada. But the thrust of this enquiry is practical not political. As far as I know there is not yet any record keeping of airline exit/entries, nor stamping of passports. Even if there was maybe CBS is not integrated with the financial departments.

Someone who is a snowbird with experience please reply. Has *anyone* ever had their GIC cancelled because they spent one hundred and eighty-FOUR days in Puerto Rico instead of Ontario?
 
#5 ·
I'm not a snowbird senior but I've dealt with issues of residency and day counts outside the country.

There is much more data collection happening at the borders these days. Different countries share information, so your entry in Country X may be reported to Canada. All the terrorism and money laundering concerns are the rationale for why this data is shared so liberally and the data collection is more extensive than commonly known.

US-Canada data sharing is particularly strong, and I can show you a print-out that shows every single entry & exit of mine into both countries. It kind of shocked me when I first found it. At first I thought this was just due to my NEXUS card but it's not; they also log my border crossings without NEXUS.

Even if you're talking about non US countries, I would still assume that the government knows the number of days you are in Canada. Data sharing within government and across organizations is also quite high, so don't assume that data is limited to one particular department.

In short, always be honest. The Canadian system is quite generous and you have choice in when you travel and how long you stay places.
 
#11 ·
I suspect that this is just one of the reasons why a passport is required. Common document, common format for all countries that has the universal IT swipe and access. Seems to me that keeping track is very simple. The question would be if the Gov't department wants to access it.

We have seen a huge increase in security measures in many countries. Last winter when we entered Panama our pictures and our fingerprints (both hands) were taken electronically. When we left Panama our fingerprints were taken again and I assumed compared to the entry set for verification. Each time we have entered Thailand over the past four years our picture and fingerprints have been taken and stored. As I passed the booth and looked back I could see my spouses details come up on the immigration officers screen. Picture, fingerprints and a list that appeared from a distance like various dates of entry from the electronic record of her passport. I think digital fingerprints and photo comparison are far better than a simple passport verification. Prior to the electronic check passports were a bit of a joke. Easily forged, easy to get blanks. There have been many reports that the Israeli Mossad traveled on fake Canadian passports for years. As have others.
 
#14 ·
I suspect that this is just one of the reasons why a passport is required. Common document, common format for all countries that has the universal IT swipe and access. Seems to me that keeping track is very simple. The question would be if the Gov't department wants to access it.
Not sure why they need to access the American database as they are supposed to be sharing the info, regardless of what's available on the web.


For the moment, the border tracking system – promised in 2011 as part of the perimeter security pact – involves exchanging entry information collected from people at the land border, so that data on entry to one country serves as a record of exit from the other.

The first two phases of the program have been limited to foreign nationals and permanent residents of Canada and the United States, but not citizens of either country.

The initiative was to be expanded by June 30, 2014, to include information-sharing on all travellers crossing the land border.

In addition, Canada had planned to begin collecting information on people leaving by plane – something the United States already does – by requiring airlines to submit passenger manifest data for outbound international flights.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2569859/canada-u-s-to-share-border-security-data/

http://www.news1130.com/2015/01/19/...er-allows-government-to-track-length-of-trip/


Cheers
 
#13 ·
Per Ian above, passports are getting very difficult to fake. Even banana repulbics have the wherewithall to manufacture (use) Internationally consistent passports with all the security features....and the equipment to read them. Whether countries choose to use that information and technology is a different question. I've watched a few episodes of Border Security that take place in Columbia's Bogota El Dorado airport and they have (and use) sophisticated passport readers to check (their) databases. What is not yet a closed loop (I think) is how diverse and shared are the databases. I doubt Canada and the USA share their databases with the good folks in Columbia, for example.

FWIW, I am supportive of some processes that measure the coming and going of individuals between borders. It will potentially catch nefarious types up to no good... AND speaking more to my pocketbook, catching scumbags that suck off the Canadian taxpayer teat. In some ways, I think it has been a pretty leaky sieve up to now and it is time to nail those who take advantage of our social programs illegally.
 
#20 ·
It used to be an issue. I wonder if it still is today. I've heard stories of Americans going to Canadian clinics and talking their way through it, saying they just misplaced their health card
Yeah, yeah... go try it :), I bet you will be turned away ...
btw, I've read that some Americans esp. from Florida were going to Cuba to get free health care.... one of the reasons why severals yearsago Cubans chaged the rules entering the country
 
#24 · (Edited)
In Alberta there are no monthly medicare premiums. It is part of the Provincial income tax regime. Everyone gets a paper card. We have never been asked for any ID whatsover. The only request has been for either the Alberta Health Card or the number itself. That includes hospital visits.

Seems to me anyone could get health care coverage if they had access to a card. When we turn 65 Alberta Health sends us, and our dependents another card for Blue Cross. It covers prescriptions. We pay 30 percent of the cost to a maximum to $30. per. I suspect that this too could easily be abused.

I cannot recall ever being asked how long we were out of the country or for how many days in the year.
 
#25 ·
I do not understand the limit set by the provinces on how much time you are out of the province. If I pay my income taxes to the province and the federal government, what does it matter that I am away 5 days or 300 days. They still get my income tax, but will choose not to provide me with medical care. I can not even buy health insurance to cover me when home in Ontario.
 
#30 ·
1. There are also consumption taxes that you are not paying if you are out of the country (i.e. PST and GST).
2. You have a good point - if health care is largely being paid by income taxes, why aren't provinces more lenient about length of residence, as long as you are a deemed resident for tax purposes?
3.OTOH there may be non-residents who are only paying CDN tax on CDN income, not world-wide income.
 
#26 ·
Agree completely.

The issue is that CRA, to my knowledge, is not linked into the Provincial health plans. You may live in Canada and pay federal and provincial taxes.

There are others who do file or pay income tax in Canada. This is probably an attempt to ensure those who are getting service are also filing tax returns in Canada. It would be very easy for us to move to a low tax country, not be required to pay tax in Canada, and maintain a local address for Provincial health care in order to get obtain medical coverage.
 
#29 ·
... The issue is that CRA, to my knowledge, is not linked into the Provincial health plans. You may live in Canada and pay federal and provincial taxes ...
This is probably an attempt to ensure those who are getting service are also filing tax returns in Canada ...
??? ... in what way, where CRA and the provincial health system are not linked is there any follow up as to filing or not filing tax returns?
Maybe I am missing something but without a link - the two are operating independently.

CBSA, on the other hand, that is part of the Canada/US border data sharing system would be of more interest to the provinces than CRA IMO.


Cheers
 
#28 ·
My spouse worked in health care in BC prior to the introduction of the photo cards. During that period there were most definately people from other countries or uninsured residents who used the health care cards of their BC friends or relatives. Probably one reason why the changes were made. Also to get ready for the ehealth initiatives.
 
#34 ·
The answer to OP's question is that it is hard to check on this now, and consequently it is too easy to cheat. But this will change in future. With digital checking of ID at entry and exit ports, pretty soon the government will have a database to check. And if CRA can make a case that there is enough fraud going on, they will get permission to access it. You could see the thin edge of wedge when CBSA recently announced that dual citizens may no longer use one passport to leave the country, and another to return. The only logical reason for doing it is so they can match entries and exits.

Canada is not an island, and does not have tight exit controls like New Zealand, but it will get tighter. Canadians theoretically don't need a VISA to visit NZ for a vacation, but they still stamp your passport with a 6 month visa on entry. When you leave New Zealand, you have to pass passport exit control, and I am sure that somewhere in the bowels of the KIWi government there is a computer that checks for anyone who has overstayed their welcome.
 
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