Isn't GIS really just Welfare for us geezers?
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Thread: Isn't GIS really just Welfare for us geezers?

  1. #1
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    Isn't GIS really just Welfare for us geezers?

    What I don't understand is why 'Guaranteed Income Supplement' isn't just part of the Ministry of Social Development and Social Innovation. I mean, let's be honest, what is it if not welfare where you don't even have to look for work? I will be eligible even though I didn't contribute in any direct way.

    My grandfather worked hard all his life as a tradesman. He bought a house, raised a family and then when it came time for retirement he was mighty disappointed. The way he put it to me was: 'If you are poor you get welfare. If you are rich, you get tax write offs. But if you are lower middle class, there is nothing.' As a widower he gave away his assets so he could qualify for subsidized housing in some Rotary Club building.

    He told me two other things, the first of which I ignored because I was sure I would be a millionaire by 35 and the second which I took to heart and followed to the letter:
    1) "Plan for your retirement."
    2) "Travel while you are young, Look at gramma and me, we started travelling at 67 and now we don't have the energy. Do it now."

    So, now I am broke. But, ah, what a life I had living by the seat of my pants, operating a cash business in Canada and travelling in the winter, throughout my thirties and forties - Kashmir, Madagascar, Laos, Burma, Sikkim.

    The prospect of spending any more time in Canada than absolutely necessary is completely depressing. But I now will have to to pay for my indulgences. And work more in my old age than I did in my prime of life. BTW, if given my youth to do it all over again - I wouldn't change a thing!


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermesHermes View Post
    What I don't understand is why 'Guaranteed Income Supplement' isn't just part of the Ministry of Social Development and Social Innovation. I mean, let's be honest, what is it if not welfare where you don't even have to look for work? I will be eligible even though I didn't contribute in any direct way.
    You might want to double check your headline.

    GIS ≠ GIC
    "That's what I do, I drink and I know things" - Tyrion Lannister

  3. #3
    Senior Member sags's Avatar
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    All these government programs should be replaced with a universal income for everyone.

    The current system is a convoluted mess of a bunch of unrelated programs that people have to navigate and government has to administer.

    A lot of jobs are going to be lost to technology and there is nothing to replace them.

    Governments have to start preparing for a future jobless society and what that means for everyone.

    The decline of unionism and the loss of DB pensions will have repercussions felt for many generations.

    The end result is a lot of people dependent on government programs for their retirement.
    Last edited by sags; 2017-04-07 at 10:27 AM.
    Someone planted a tree a long time ago so I can sit in the shade.

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  5. #4
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    I'm in my 30s and everyone I know who is well off and comfortable in life has a job that is closely tied to or funded by government. Another way of saying this is, I am not aware of a single person (well one, Person F) who works in a purely private industry, who has a well paying job and is comfortable -- without government support

    Person A: a manager in health care/hospital administration in Ontario ... heavily govt funded industry.
    Person B: university professor ... obviously govt funded
    Person C: a whole bunch of my friends at hydroelectric utilities, crown corporations - provincially funded
    Person D: some federal govt employees I know
    Person E: Bay Street, whose industry was bailed out and is totally back stopped by federal government: corporate welfare

    Person F: the only exception, an engineer in his 60s who runs his own consulting business, though I bet if we looked into his client list, there'd be a lot of government funded money there too

    My own job in the US, very well paying, is also heavily government subsidized. I'm virtually a US govt employee.
    Last edited by james4beach; 2017-04-07 at 10:38 AM.

  6. #5
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    By your definition the government is funding the job of crack dealer as federal programs ensure scarcity of the pushers product artificially driving up profits.

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    I'm not saying there's anything wrong with government funding. My own job is government funded. Would you not call the jobs I listed as being heavily supported by govt?

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    To me, a non government job is one where (1) income or primary funding does not directly come from government and (2) government does not back stop or directly assist the industry.

    Check those two boxes, and I'll call someone a private sector employee.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sags View Post
    All these government programs should be replaced with a universal income for everyone.

    The current system is a convoluted mess of a bunch of unrelated programs that people have to navigate and government has to administer.

    A lot of jobs are going to be lost to technology and there is nothing to replace them.

    Governments have to start preparing for a future jobless society and what that means for everyone.

    The decline of unionism and the loss of DB pensions will have repercussions felt for many generations.

    The end result is a lot of people dependent on government programs for their retirement.
    I agree things like OAS and GIS should be replaced with a universal minimum income for everyone, not just age and means tested. Both GIS and OAS are perverse in their application to seniors only. Too much OAS is going to rich seniors and GIS wouldn't pay the rent. All that money could be way more fairly allocated.

    I don't lament the decline of unionism nor DB pensions. Employers should not be in the social welfare business. They need to stay competitive to stay in business in this country. Society is much better off with 1 million jobs at $20/hr than 10 jobs at $30/hr. What needs to happen is for more gov't support of things like a national drug plan aka New Zealand (to supplement the current health care plan) to help maintain a healthy population, more and better day care subsidization to permit hard working families to better keep their heads above water, and less consumerism (no one needs the latest smartphone or similar technology).

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    Quote Originally Posted by james4beach View Post
    To me, a non government job is one where (1) income or primary funding does not directly come from government and (2) government does not back stop or directly assist the industry.

    Check those two boxes, and I'll call someone a private sector employee.
    As I said, by your definition everyone is a government subsidized employee, even the crack dealer on Hastings Street.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermesHermes View Post
    ... As a widower he gave away his assets so he could qualify for subsidized housing in some Rotary Club building....
    And he didn't consider this to be "gaming the system?"


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