Technology may be going too far, too fast. - Page 9
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Thread: Technology may be going too far, too fast.

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewf View Post
    Are humans more than just biological machines? What is magic about humans?
    Humans are life forms like rabbits and bacteria and elephants. We have been shaped by the forces of evolution,survival of the fittest
    as Darwin said . May species have gone extinct, the neaderthals for example. Some people say they were a subspecies of our own, h. sapiens.
    But conditions change or they were eliminated by h.sapiens and they went extinct. Will this new world of AI be another event in which a certain part of of the population is selected against? If this section of the population is not intelligent enough to thrive in this demanding new world,
    will they continue to contribute to the gene pool?

    Alternately , conditions may become so abundant and plentiful that there will be more than enough resources for all and everyone regardless of their ability and genetic makeup can come along for the ride .


  2. #82
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    Saying that machines cannot be intelligent/aware/etc. means that there is something about humans that is not possible to emulate in a machine. What is that? Humans are just wetware versions of computers, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of anything magical happening, so a sufficiently advanced computer should be able to have the same (or superior) cognitive abilities as a human. That humans are the product of evolution is rather moot. All it means is that the computers in our heads are highly specialized, adapted to help with our ability to reproduce our genes. It's very efficient/effective at certain computational tasks (vision, for example), far better than any computer humans make today, but far worse than even basic computers at other tasks (such as calculations, memory, etc.).

  3. #83
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    They have many computer languages that are specifically designed to actually allow code to self generate. In other words, we can now write code that is able to modify itself. This isn't some clever trick of human programming that emulates human behaviour, this is self evolving computer code.

    While it hasn't reached self awareness yet, it has been able to deduce new objects from sensory input such as cameras or microphones. Also, computational evolution occurs several orders of magnitude faster than biological evolution. Anyone who is actually involved with high tech, as opposed to the dark ages with closed minded thinking, can see the possibilities to come.

    Not saying it will happen, but I've seen some amazing things going on in research labs that the general public has no idea about...heck, I remember primitive holo deck technology back when I was in university and that was a while ago...
    I'm not JustAGuy (without spaces), or Donald, or <insert name here>.

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  5. #84
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    Human beings are alive. They are not inanimate. So what is the definition of life?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life


    From a physics perspective, living beings are thermodynamic systems with an organized molecular structure that can reproduce itself and evolve as survival dictates.[19][20] Thermodynamically, life has been described as an open system which makes use of gradients in its surroundings to create imperfect copies of itself.[21] Hence, life is a self-sustained chemical system capable of undergoing Darwinian evolution.[22][23] A major strength of this definition is that it distinguishes life by the evolutionary process rather than its chemical composition.[24]
    So you have to include the idea of a self-sustaining chemical system. The system we use on earth is the copying of the DNA molecule.
    It is a complex molecule which has the ability to code for proteins which make up the body of the animal and to make copies of itself.
    Nobody tells this molecule to copy itself, It just does it. Without this ability there is no life.

    How can you emulate this ability without actually having this ability to copy oneself?

    A picture of a human being may be very realistic but it is not alive itself.



    On the stage at Stratford ,Ontario I saw a man pretending to be King Lear. But he really wasn't.

    Pretending to be alive isn't being alive. To be alive you need to possess a molecule which copies itself.

    Life is an artifact of the very nature of physics and chemistry plus evolution.

    Either an entity possesses these characteristics or it doesn't. You can't fake it.

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    They have many computer languages that are specifically designed to actually allow code to self generate. In other words, we can now write code that is able to modify itself. This isn't some clever trick of human programming that emulates human behaviour, this is self evolving computer code.

    While it hasn't reached self awareness yet, it has been able to deduce new objects from sensory input such as cameras or microphones. Also, computational evolution occurs several orders of magnitude faster than biological evolution. Anyone who is actually involved with high tech, as opposed to the dark ages with closed minded thinking, can see the possibilities to come.

    Not saying it will happen, but I've seen some amazing things going on in research labs that the general public has no idea about...heck, I remember primitive holo deck technology back when I was in university and that was a while ago...
    Machines are machines. "While it hasn't reached self awareness yet"-I think I saw that Twilight Zone episode where the toaster and stove, etc got together and revolted against humanity.-LOL.

  7. #86
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    We'll just ignore the usual Nelley useless comment between this instead of copying the quote.

    What happens if a machine could construct itself, many robots actually control the manufacturing process already. Silicon chips are an imperfect copy, many functioning chips actually have sections which aren't used, so chips aren't identical, they have redundant circuitry to compensate.

    As for passing on "genetic" material the software code which tells the device how to operate, with an ability to learn and grow sure sounds a lot like DNA to me, just in a different form.

    I'm not implying pretending to be human, I'm talking about a different type of life form. Or are you implying that in the universe, the only forms of life have to have evolved exactly like they did on this one planet? Our world is pretty diverse, and we're less than a spec of dust in relation to the universe...I expect there's a lot of diversity out there that we can't even comprehend.
    I'm not JustAGuy (without spaces), or Donald, or <insert name here>.

  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    We'll just ignore the usual Nelley useless comment between this instead of copying the quote.

    What happens if a machine could construct itself, many robots actually control the manufacturing process already. Silicon chips are an imperfect copy, many functioning chips actually have sections which aren't used, so chips aren't identical, they have redundant circuitry to compensate.

    As for passing on "genetic" material the software code which tells the device how to operate, with an ability to learn and grow sure sounds a lot like DNA to me, just in a different form.

    I'm not implying pretending to be human, I'm talking about a different type of life form. Or are you implying that in the universe, the only forms of life have to have evolved exactly like they did on this one planet? Our world is pretty diverse, and we're less than a spec of dust in relation to the universe...I expect there's a lot of diversity out there that we can't even comprehend.
    It is a machine. You keep saying it is a different type of life form-that is like saying GOOGLE search engine is a life form-that is stupid on your part-no offense. It has absolutely nothing to do with self awareness or creativity or humans-it is simply a machine that can do some things better than any human can-just like a tractor can plow a field better than a human by hand-the tractor is not an advanced human life form-just a machine. You seem to be obsessed on this subject-why is it so important to you to believe that machines can come to life? We both agree that the inroads into formerly human occupations are going to be staggering in any event.

  9. #88
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    Never said google was a life form. An algorithm that analyzes data for indexing is quite a bit different from a self replicating, self writing program with sensory input. Just like single celled organisms are different from a whale or a human.

    instead of constantly repeating yourself that it'll never happen, maybe try educating yourself on what is being done in the research lab. For example, look at your creativity comment...

    http://www.popsci.com/can-computer-make-art

    Of course, there are those flat worlders still out there and those who think the earth is only about 6000 years old too...or are you the traditionalist who believes mice are born from laundry?

    https://www.wired.com/2014/06/fantas...sweaty-shirts/
    I'm not JustAGuy (without spaces), or Donald, or <insert name here>.

  10. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just a Guy View Post
    Never said google was a life form. An algorithm that analyzes data for indexing is quite a bit different from a self replicating, self writing program with sensory input. Just like single celled organisms are different from a whale or a human.

    instead of constantly repeating yourself that it'll never happen, maybe try educating yourself on what is being done in the research lab. For example, look at your creativity comment...

    http://www.popsci.com/can-computer-make-art

    Of course, there are those flat worlders still out there and those who think the earth is only about 6000 years old too...or are you the traditionalist who believes mice are born from laundry?

    https://www.wired.com/2014/06/fantas...sweaty-shirts/
    You seem to struggle with logic-wow-a machine can make "art"-next you will tell us someone invented a camera or moving pictures-IMO if your authority figures told you the earth was 6000 years old no one could convince you otherwise-you seem rather closed minded.

  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraphter View Post
    Human beings are alive. They are not inanimate. So what is the definition of life?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life



    So you have to include the idea of a self-sustaining chemical system. The system we use on earth is the copying of the DNA molecule.
    It is a complex molecule which has the ability to code for proteins which make up the body of the animal and to make copies of itself.
    Nobody tells this molecule to copy itself, It just does it. Without this ability there is no life.

    How can you emulate this ability without actually having this ability to copy oneself?

    A picture of a human being may be very realistic but it is not alive itself.



    On the stage at Stratford ,Ontario I saw a man pretending to be King Lear. But he really wasn't.

    Pretending to be alive isn't being alive. To be alive you need to possess a molecule which copies itself.

    Life is an artifact of the very nature of physics and chemistry plus evolution.

    Either an entity possesses these characteristics or it doesn't. You can't fake it.
    You're begging the question. Are you saying that the chemical/biological computers in our heads have some quality that can't be replicated in silicon. Fine. Humans have also made biological computers, so could such a computer become self-aware? You're still arguing that there is something physically possible in our heads, that can't be physically constructed using non-biological means.


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