Wynne gov't lying to consumers on cap and trade carbon tax on home heating bills - Page 3
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Thread: Wynne gov't lying to consumers on cap and trade carbon tax on home heating bills

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis View Post
    Carverman, I no longer have a salary. Your CPP and OAS are being increased for inflation. I don't like paying more for fuel than anyone else, but I also think n it's high time that we do something about carbon beyond clapping our hands over our ears and shouting "I can't hear you." The only way to get people and business to produce less carbon is to start charging for it.

    As an aside it is unfortunate that when some one starts a thread with a premise that gets disproved (like Wynne is lying about the cost), it never gets removed from the heading.
    YUP-the sheep need to make room for China to build a new coal plant every month. CO2 coming from China isn't the same as CO2 coming from Ontario (forget the fact that our emissions are immaterial to the Big China Smoke-it is the thought that counts.)


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelley View Post
    YUP-the sheep need to make room for China to build a new coal plant every month. CO2 coming from China isn't the same as CO2 coming from Ontario (forget the fact that our emissions are immaterial to the Big China Smoke-it is the thought that counts.)
    It's pronounced Djina, not China.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis View Post
    The only way to get people and business to produce less carbon is to start charging for it.
    CO2 is not carbon.

    That being said...the undisputable fact is that no one has proven that we need to reduce or stop producing CO2. Taxing people to fix a non-existent problem is one of the stupidest actions a government can take.

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  5. #24
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    I dispute that. Most scientists dispute that. Stephen Hawking disputes that. All the big scientific organizations dispute that. NASA disputes that. The NOAA disputes that. So you are demonstrably when you say it's indisputable. Bombast doesn't make you right, and doesn't win arguments.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass player View Post
    CO2 is not carbon.

    That being said...the undisputable fact is that no one has proven that we need to reduce or stop producing CO2. Taxing people to fix a non-existent problem is one of the stupidest actions a government can take.
    What does the C in CO2 stand for?

    You're winning the pedantry award for the day with this comment.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis View Post

    As an aside it is unfortunate that when some one starts a thread with a premise that gets disproved (like Wynne is lying about the cost), it never gets removed from the heading.
    I think the heading has merit. and it will remain as such.

    You are entitled to your opinion of course. Wynne's carbon tax will add more stress to the low income families
    that are struggling right now with high electricity rates and inspite of collecting the carbon tax revenue it will NOT make much of a difference in consumption of carbon based fuels or green house gas generation
    ...so this is a big lie from Wynne and her gov't.

    The people that are going to suffer the worst are those on low incomes.

    In summary, in spite of the imposed carbon tax starting Jan 1/2017:

    1. Cars, trucks and buses, airplanes will still burn the same amount of fuel to carry on daily business.

    2. Heating buildings and houses will still go on regardless, just that it will cost more in 2017.

    All that CO2 gets released into the atmosphere all over Canada.

    In the US, it is much worse as the consumption is FAR greater than in Canada and that CO2 release is
    cumulative..and there is no way Trump will implement a national carbon tax or put individual states
    to task to implement it on their own..that would be political suicide in any state that tries it.

    Besides, all the other countries that burn carbon based fuel will continue to burn carbon based fuel depending on their economies and needs, regardless of Wynne's carbon tax.
    They will ALSO continue to release vast quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere, which is cummulative around the globe, no matter where the CO2 is released into the atmosphere and all that will add to global warming increase in spite of Wynne's carbon tax.

    We all live on the same planet and breathe the same atmosphere. While parts of the atmosphere can be
    polluted (China for example)due to high coal burning regions), whether we burn coal, gasoline, propane,
    nat gas, jet fuel, diesel or even wood, the end product of combustion is Carbon Dioxide which traps the
    suns rays. When it is plentiful in the atmosphere it is acting like a blanket to trap heat from the sun.

    Fossil fuel consumption around the world, will not stop just because Wynne has added a carbon tax.
    It is a repressive tax, meant ONLY to add revenue to Wynne's soon to be 300 Billion Ontario deficit.
    Forget about her promises of balancing the budget within the next year or two.

    Wynnes' carbon tax will NOT make any difference to global warming until the rest of the other high users
    of carbon based fuels either cut down or stop using carbon based fuels, so this is just another CASH GRAB
    from the scandalous Wynne gov't.

    So in conclusion:
    This carbon tax will NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE to GLOBAL WARMING, it's just another tax heaped on the people of Ontario to pay on top of all the other taxes we already pay.

    BTW; My CPP and OAS increase in 2017 will NOT match what I have to spend extra on this new carbon tax and my property tax goes up as well.
    Last edited by carverman; 2016-12-29 at 08:19 AM.

  8. #27
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    Sorry, Carverman, the heading and your first post claim that Wynne is lying when she says the average household will pay $6 more because you estimate that you will pay $7 more.

    Your claim is based on your failure to understand the difference between an average and you.

    Your later objections to the effectiveness of the policy in combating climate change don't change that.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis View Post
    Sorry, Carverman, the heading and your first post claim that Wynne is lying when she says the average household will pay $6 more because you estimate that you will pay $7 more.

    Your claim is based on your failure to understand the difference between an average and you.

    Your later objections to the effectiveness of the policy in combating climate change don't change that.
    She is still lying to me. Based on my nat gas consumption of 2016, I will be paying a lot more in the heating season for nat gas.

    I don't care what Wynne is saying about averages. When Enbridge adds 3.3c for every cu M of nat gas i consume, in the winter months, January, depending on how cold it gets, will require about 400 cuMetres of nat gas for heat and hot water.

    At 3.3 c per Cu M of carbon tax..that's $13.20 extra added to my monthly gas bill on top of the other charges and HST. That is far more per month than the $6 a month extra that the carbon tax wil add that she was talking about to the press.

    It's all BS from the Wynne gov't. They are more interested in padding their provincial treasury than trying to address global warming.

    My reasons are in my previous post.

    At least Saskatchewan had the sense not to get involved with this carbon tax cash grab scheme as it will
    do nothing to prevent global warming.

  10. #29
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    The auditor general has serious doubts this tax grab will do any good for climate change, and I believe her. But let's put aside the debate on climate change, formerly known as global warming. Question is, do you trust the current gang of clowns to administer the program properly? And the answer is a resounding HELL NO.

    Given their fabulous track record with absolutely everything they touch, I have no doubt in no time we're gonna start hearing about the myriad of scandals and waste with this program as well.

  11. #30
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    When Wynne tells you about the implant on n the average household, that's all she is telling you. She isn't feeling you what the impact is on you. Saying, "I don't care about averages so she lying" does not make any sense, and I'm sure that you can see that.

    Yes, Canada is a small contributor to CO2 emissions in a world of 200 countries, but Canadians are close to the top of the league in terms of how much each of us produces, which is many times more than the CO2 each Chinese person produces.

    There is no way we can ask any other country to control their emissions of we're not willing to do it ourselves.

    You may not agree with the logic of this, and you are entitled to your opinion, as are people who agree with it. The repeated trope of some CMFers in these discussions that anyone who disagrees with them is lying, stupid, a sheep, or part of a conspiracy is what makes these discussions entirely useless.

    It really justs ends up as a shouting match providing no illumination at all.


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