2. I could not agree more and these individuals have made zero contributions to these discussions [same under the Shafia thread]; they simply enter the discussion to pick on females it seems; first it was me, now it is Karen. Pathetic.
"Insolence is not logic; epithets are the arguments of malice."
I'm just stating my point of view for what it is. I'm not sure that that can be misconstrued as racist, all I'm trying to do is raise a point that there seems to be more incidents in recent years in NA.
What kind of statistical evidence are you talking about? Somebody setting up a national or international data base of all the honor killings that take place each year per region/capita or country? All murders handled by due process of theI agree with Andrew, that without unbiased statistical evidence, these stories are sad............but not indicative of a trend.
law are recorded the same way..in the courts and by the media.
Nobody is going to start a data base on the internet to keep track of them!
You are deviating from the topic here my fine forum friend. I am discussing honour killings not revenge or robbery killings which happen all the time.Murder is murder......and to focus on the reasons for it leads down the path of degrees of justification.
Is the murder of a drug dealer less onerous than the murder of a store clerk?
Honour killings are slanted towards one part of society on purpose and for selfish and totally insane reasoning by men against women and girls.
This doesn't even deserve a rebuttal.By labelling these particular crimes as "honour killings" implies there is some honour that was avenged by the murder.
a quick google search shows honour killings on the increase in every country including england.
here's the ny times-affiliated Express Tribune of pakistan in a december 2011 story reporting honour killings in pakistan for the 9 months january through september of last year.
killings to date were 675, a pakistan human rights commission spokesman told agence france-presse. Figures for the full year 2011 will be released later this february, he added.
" The Commission reported 791 honour killings in 2010 and there was no discernible decrease this year," the PHRC official said.
other pakistani sources placed 2010 honour killings at 557, meaning that the 2011 figure had increased sharply.
To me, this (video) is nothing but pre-meditated murder. The translated expression of the man casting the first stone..
"God help me" is a desperate cry for forgiveness in his participation of the murder of a helpless woman that
cannot defend herself.
How cruel, how barbaric and what kind of religion that allows this yet does not allow compassion, and takes violence in its own hands to justify the very reason for it's existence!
This type of behaviour at least can't be "imported" into our country, because they couldn't hide the fact that this is nothing but (sanctioned by their religion), pre-meditated murder.
In NA, they use devious ways here by staging their killing as an "accident", hoping they might be lucky enough to get away with it if they can continue to lie without tripping themselves up..but at least here we have technology on our side, so it's not so easy for them to hide it.
Last edited by carverman; 2012-02-13 at 03:00 PM.
I have answered your question in the Shafia thread - many times. I most certainly do not want to ban Muslim immigration because that would be unfair to the many decent Muslims who make valuable contriutions to our society. However, I do think that immigration officials should take extra care in assessing potential immigrants from countries where these kinds of despicable crimes are common and are condoned by the courts and other government agencies. I fully realize the fact that this will not prevent the admittance of many, if not most, of these evil people, but if even a few are ruled out as immigrants, it is better than nothing.Finally, I've asked it before, but I'll do so again: what do you want done about it? Are you outraged for the sake of outrage? Or do you want action to be taken, such as banning muslim immigration? A public education campaign along the lines of 'don't kill your wife or daughter'?
Note also that extremist Muslims are not the only group that practices these kinds of evil against females. We have had similar cases in B.C. involving another religion and I do not advocate banning that whole group from Canada either as most of them are good citizens.
"Insolence is not logic; epithets are the arguments of malice."
The only thing evil needs to prevail, is for good men to do nothing.
I think to.gal and Karen get it, but some of these other people in here need to ask themselves if they're part of the problem or the solution.
t.gal it was a quick google search.
i'd assumed the imprimatur of the pakistan human rights commission has merit. Agence france-presse are good reporters.
because otherwise i'd have to take apart the history & political makeup of the PHRC & i cannot possibly do that !
What's the solution, then, TRM?
Karen, if we screen out the men who are susceptible to the idea of murdering their family, what becomes of their family? They are prevented from coming to Canada. In Canada they are likelier to have access to a justice system that will protect their interests--we don't have Sharia law here after all. I don't know if that is the answer. I don't think this is a simple problem, and I don't think that being vocally angry about it fixes anything. A good start would be to examine the public safety system and whether it does enough to protect women and children who are threatened by the men in their life. The stories that I hear suggests that it fails too often.
HP, your rhetoric is very disappointing. Challenging points is not 'close to violence'. I'm not going to be bullied into self-censorship, by you or anyone.
For what it's worth, I checked the wikipedia page on honour killing for Canada. There is a mention of a study on how this cultural norm is transmitted to Canada, and how many of perpetrators are mentally ill (which certainly makes sense to me). Three separate sets of convictions are mentioned. I didn't see any reference to statistics for Canada.
Andrew, it sounds as if you think we should admit every family in the world where the women are at risk of being harmed by their men iinto Canada. A lofty goal, perhaps, but completely impractical, and one that surely even you would not support.Karen, if we screen out the men who are susceptible to the idea of murdering their family, what becomes of their family? They are prevented from coming to Canada. In Canada they are likelier to have access to a justice system that will protect their interests--we don't have Sharia law here after all.
The fact that there isn't Sharia law in Canada didn't save the Shafia family, did it?