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Why moderate income people would retire in Canada

27K views 68 replies 29 participants last post by  DanFo 
#1 ·
By moderate income retiree I mean anyone making at least 100k/year.
I can come with a lot of reasons why not retire in Canada:
- high taxes and the money partially go to finance the retirement of people who did not save during their lifetime. In contrast, one could retire in a Caribbean country and pay no taxes.
- terrible health-care. It's true that the direct cost is very low, but the service is awful.
- bad weather year round except a couple of months on the west coast.
I'm interested in the reasons why current retirees chose Canada and why future moderate income retirees would retire in Canada.
 
#46 ·
I have to agree with berubeland on this one. I believe the US system is a nightmare except if you have the money of course, it seems that so many countries in the world are getting a lot cheaper system then the US and everyone is covered.

I often wonder why the people in the US want to save money all their working lives only to give it all to the doctors some day. I believe like berubeland that certain things are better administered by the government than for profit companies. The people in the US are always worried about their freedom and are probably less free today then they have ever been with the police state they are trying to form after 9/11.
 
#48 ·
I was in a serious Car accident which left me permanently disabled .I do not speak about my situation often but until you go though a life threatening situation you do not appreciate the health care system we have.

I have no memory of the accident itself except hearing the tools the firemen used to cut me out .Even to this day certain sounds cause me to have a reaction . I had a broken back , pelvis ,legs and my right arm was nearly severed.

I am sure I felt pain but the things I hold to in my memory to this day are voices of the people who cared for me ,the EMS team,the nurses and Doctors who cared for me the six weeks I was in the hospital.I had eighteen surgeries before I could go home and many more since then and it has never cost me a dime.My husband and mother were told i had oxygen levels in the 30s and it did not look good but I survived.

I love to travel and would go and spend a couple months down south but I would never leave Canada because of the health care I DO continue to receive.I lost almost 1/2 inch of bone in my right hip/leg as my right side was nearly crushed so I do use a wheelchair 90% of the time .But I continue to get more function back every time i have surgical tweaks.

I have also received many Plastic Surgeries that Ohip paid for over the years.I can't even guess what the bill would cost for all the things I have had done.

ER waiting rooms may have long lines but it is there when you REALLY need it .I am sure I was a big mess for them to face the night I was brought in and probably people in the waiting room thought they were doing a bad job but they saved my life and my arm.

Marina
 
#53 ·
OK Let's agree that neither system (US or Canada) is perfect and could be improved? Wait times are too long in Canada and tbe poor are underserved in the US. Couldn't we come up with a hybrid system that works better than either? What would it look like? Maybe a base level of service paid by the state with higher levels paid by the individual? If so how would you keep he good doctors in the lower tier? Would you need to? I can afford more expensive care and I would rather get it in Canada. Why not? If I want a more expensive house or car nobody says it isn't fair if I do so?
 
#54 · (Edited)
...

I'm interested in the reasons why current retirees chose Canada and why future moderate income retirees would retire in Canada.
- Medicare;
- Subsidized Long Term Care;
- First World Standard of Living;
- First World Standards of Public Health
- Public Safety
- Low crime rates compared to many of the alternatives
- Freedom of Speech, Assembly, Religion, & Press;
- Stable (more or less) Democratic Government
- Simple gratitude to the country that made it possible for you to earn a "moderate" retirement income of $100K.
- No malaria, no Tsetse flies, very few poisonous snakes, no obscure tropical diseases, no 'gators, 'crocs or sharks
- infrequent tornadoes compared to US
- very rare hurricanes compared to US & Caribbean
- no volcanoes

Need I go on?
 
#55 · (Edited)
... I mean anyone making at least 100k/year.
... In contrast, one could retire in a Caribbean country and pay no taxes.
...
By the way, if your 100K/year income includes any of the following, you are still going to pay 25% withholding tax to CRA:

The most common types of Canadian income subject to Part XIII tax are:

* dividends;
* rental and royalty payments;
* pension payments;
* Old Age Security pension;
* Canada Pension Plan and Quebec Pension Plan benefits;
* retiring allowances;
* registered retirement savings plan payments;
* registered retirement income fund payments;
* annuity payments;
* management fees.

So if you live in Aruba on these incomes you will be paying Canadian taxes and getting no services for it. And before you get incensed about it, most of these are either from tax-deferred accounts (pensions, RRSPs, & the like) or from business operations in Canada (rents & royalties)

The average tax rate in Ontario on $100K is 27.4%, counting no tax credits other then basic deduction. Less after you count other credits such as pension & age amounts, medical expenses, charitable donations, etc. So unless your income is from portable wealth that you can take out of the country with you, your CDN income tax bill may be about the same whether you stay or leave.
 
#56 ·
I partially take back my first statement about high taxes. The taxes are high only before 65. After 65, the pension income could be split, the $100k split income qualifies for full OAS and according to taxtips.ca the income tax would be $18k. Since $12k is OAS, the retirees are left with $94k after taxes.
I've also seen some other good arguments. Maybe a snowbird lifestyle makes more sense after all.
 
#57 ·
Boy your definition of "moderate" income for a retiree is much different than mine and also much different than the statistics for average Canadian retirees would indicate.

I don't know how these would apply to other jurisdictions but the reasons I would stay over going to the US:

medicare - There are often loopholes in the American insurance plans. Someone told me of their friend, who thought he had good insurance, having to sell his house due to complications from having Alzheimer's disease.

family and friends

Complications and red tape with US estate taxes.

Crime rates and litigious judicial system

A sense of patriotism

All that being said, I could easily see spending a couple of winter months in a warmer climate.
 
#58 ·
EVERYONE who can hobble back to Canada for health services does. One illness away from bankruptcy is a strong motivator. Enjoy retirement abroad but tell the ambulance to drop you off at the airport and have your travel agent's number on speed dial.

Physical recovery is much quicker than financial recovery.
 
#63 ·
See this CNN article: Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/...ls-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH

Quote:
This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."


Save this for the next time you hear someone questioning the value of Medicare. Yes, we have service delivery problems in Canada, but at least we have a public health care sytem.
 
#66 ·
I can come with a lot of reasons why not retire in Canada:
- high taxes and the money partially go to finance the retirement of people who did not save during their lifetime. In contrast, one could retire in a Caribbean country and pay no taxes.
- terrible health-care. It's true that the direct cost is very low, but the service is awful.
- bad weather year round except a couple of months on the west coast.
I'm interested in the reasons why current retirees chose Canada and why future moderate income retirees would retire in Canada.
Two things stand out as really important for me personally:
i) Security of Person
ii) Access to affordable healthcare
There are other things but these two rank at the top of my list.

Healthcare - physicians are paid extremely well in Canada, the only country that pays more is the USA, and this may be due to the fact that training as a MD is mostly similar and the border does not present a problem for a Canadian physician who wishes to practice in the USA.

I do not have a particular issue with access, my experience is that access to care for emergency stuff is excellent, and the elective stuff, well that is the price you pay for a healthcare system that covers everybody.

I do, however, have an issue with the fact that some physicians and nurses treat their patients as paupers and not deserving of respect, and sadly this seems to become worse as they grow older and have no one to advocate for them.
 
#67 ·
My wife had to go in for day surgery at a nearby town in Manitoba so we didn't know anyone at the hospital. I was so moved by the compassionate care she received that I wrote a note to admin and promptly got a courteous reply. Thankfully we are not big health care users but if this was an indication of our healthcare system we are a very fortunate society. Of course you will run into glitches but overall remember---it could be worse. Now only if we can return the Stanley Cup to Winnipeg!
 
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