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RESP tracking - couch potato investing

43K views 99 replies 19 participants last post by  BoringInvestor 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

As a companion post to my existing thread, this new thread will solely focus on my daughter's RESP. As a change, I'll be openly disclosing the full value of the account.


RESP investing

Statistics show many Canadians do not take advantage of an RESP. Of those who do use an RESP, many Canadians are not aware they can invest for themselves, and instead invest in group plans that are not optimal due to higher fees, restrictions on withdrawals, and under performance.

I'm creating this thread to provide encouragement to those who are looking to take control of their child's RESP, by investing in a passive, index-tracking, low-cost, ETF portfolio.
Feel free to post your questions or your own RESP results below.


RESP setup

The RESP will typically receive new deposits, and be rebalanced on a quarterly schedule (January, April, July, October).

I'll be following the ETF model portfolio, as described on Canadian Couch Potato, with some modifications:


  • The ETFs being used in the account are: VCN (Canadian markets), VXC (International markets), and VAB (Canadian bonds)
    I've be allocating funds among three asset classes: equity, bonds, and GICs
    For the equity portion, I'm allocating 20% to VCN (Canadian), and 80% to VXC (International)
    Until the year my daughter turns 4 (2019), I'll be investing 100% of the portfolio in the equity class
    Starting in 2019, I'll reduce the equity portion by 1/9 (~11%), and move the funds to bonds: VAB. This process will be complete in 2027.
    Starting in the year my daughter turns 12 (2028), I'll be primarily focusing on capital preservation. To do this I'll be reducing the bond allocation by 1/5 (20%), each year and moving it into GICs with a maturity in 2033. I'll be fully out of bonds, and only in GICs, as of 2032.


RESP deposit & government contribution schedule

For RESPs, I have to be mindful of both of the rules surrounding personal and government contributions.

Personal contributions
Presently, there is a lifetime contribution maximum of $50,000. I'd like to front-load this as much as possible.
As I intend to hit the maximum, my goal is to deposit $4,000 per year from 2015 to 2023, $3,000 in 2014, $2,500 from 2025 to 2028, and $1,000 in 2029.

Government contributions
Like all Canadians, my family qualifies for the Canadian Education Savings Grant, which provides 20% of the contribution each year, up to a maximum of $500 / year, and a lifetime maximum of $7,200.
As I intend to get the maximum amount, if I follow my schedule outlined above, I'll receive $500 every year from 2015 to 2028, and $200 in 2029.


RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 5.20% or $467.35
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 18.35% or $1,467.85

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is 6.48%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $22.38

You can log in to view the attachment below.


Monthly performance:

2015
  • April 2015: -1.45%
  • May 2015: 2.08%
  • June 2015: -1.87%
  • July 2015: 4.88%
  • August 2015: -5.92%
  • September 2015: -2.79%
  • October 2015: 5.10%
  • November 2015: 1.31%
  • December 2015: 0.20%
2016
  • January 2016: -3.49%
  • February 2016: -3.60%
  • March 2016: 2.39%
  • April 2016: -1.09%
  • May 2016: 3.97%
  • June 2016: -1.13%
  • July 2016: 4.45%
  • August 2016: 0.72%
  • September 2016: 0.82%


View attachment 11874
 
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#46 · (Edited)
June 2016 update

Commentary
We received some unexpected family money in June, which we used to top up our 2016 contributions to $4,000. The funds were used to rebalance the portfolio.
We won't be putting any more money in this year.
Based on the most recent deposit, we're due another $80 in CESG funds, which I expect to see deposited into the account in July.

June saw the RESP slip back to negative territory.

Monthly results
The portfolio this month: down -1.13% or -$101.24

Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): down -0.41% or -$71.15
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 11.04% or $883.45

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is -0.65%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $21.14

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View attachment 10865
 
#47 ·
July 2016 update

Commentary
July saw the last deposit into the account in 2016 - the final $80 of CESG funds.
The month was the third best month since the portfolio began (4.87%), and brought the portfolio to it's all-time highs for both net gain ($400.41), and net gain % (4.45%).

Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 4.87% or $436.96

Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 4.45% or $400.41
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 17.51% or $1,400.41

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is 6.19%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $22.21

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View attachment 11177
 
#48 ·
August 2016 update

Commentary
August's results were slightly positive, bringing the account to its highest ever end of month total.
With these results the annualized money-weighted return is approaching my target of 7% return per year.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 0.72% or $67.44

Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 5.20% or $467.85
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 18.35% or $1,467.85

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is 6.48%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $22.38

You can log in to view the attachment below.

View attachment 11402
 
#51 · (Edited)
September 2016 update

Commentary
September's results were slightly positive, bringing the account to its highest ever end of month total.
The account has seen three straight months of positive gains, tying it with the previously-held longest streak.

Both positions paid dividends in September, and an additional share of VXC was dripped.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 0.82% or $77.35

Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 6.06% or $545.20
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 19.32% or $1,545.20

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is 6.79%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $22.53

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View attachment 11866
 
#52 ·
October 2016 update

Commentary
October's result was very slightly positive.
The past four months have seen consecutive positive returns which is the longest streak of gains since the account started.

Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 0.37% or $33.64

Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 6.45% or $580.84
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 19.76% or $1,580.84

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is 6.63%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $22.61


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View attachment 12418
 
#53 ·
November 2016 update

Commentary
November's results remained positive, and was the 7th best month since the portfolio began.
The 'win' streak for the portfolio is now at five consecutive months.


Note: as the CMF board settings have changed I can no longer edit the first post in this thread with historical data.
As such, all my results will only be shared through these monthly updates.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 1.54% or $147.55

Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 8.09% or $728.39
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 21.60% or $1,728.39

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is 7.64%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $22.94


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View attachment 13169
 
#54 ·
December 2016 update

Commentary
December was the sixth consecutive month with a gain, and the eight best month since the portfolio began.
The total gains in my account ($855.51), are rapidly approaching the total amount of Canadian Education Savings Grant received ($1,000).

For the year the portfolio gained $820.91, which was a 9.09% increase.

Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 1.31% or $127.12.

Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 9.51% or $855.51
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 23.19% or $1,855.51

The annualized (money-weighted) investment rate of return is 8.23%

The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $23.25


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View attachment 13441
 
#55 ·
Hi BoringInvestor,

My son was born a few months ago and I'm trying to set up a spreadsheet for his RESP. I really like your dashboard. I was hoping you could give me some insight into how you run your returns calculations. Specifically - how you split the CESG and the regular contributions.

For reference - I use a heavily modified version of this spreadsheet for my personal accounts:

edit - post count not high enough to post links - google "bogglehead returns spreadsheet" and the link is one page down on the first hit if you're interested.

Anyway, all the calculations are performed based on 3 pieces of input per account per month: contributions, withdrawals, and account balance.

I'm curious if you run two series of calculations in parallel? One with the CESG and one without? You must also differentiate between CESG and regular contributions when putting in your monthly numbers as well? I've heard that the CESG comes in 1-2 months after the regular contributions - does this affect your calculations at all? Do you just record the CESG in the month that you receive it?

Any advice you'd be willing to give would be greatly appreciated. I scrubbed version of your RESP spreadsheet would be awesome - but I completely understand if you'd prefer not give it out.

Thank you!

Jeremy
 
#56 ·
Congrats on the birth of your son!

That Bogglehead spreadsheet is very pretty to look at, and seems easy to use.
The one I use is a bit of a beast and requires frequent manual tweaking to update the chart.


I've included the screenshots below to show the layouts of my sheets.
The one that calculates XIRR I grabbed from somewhere on the internet - I'm sorry I don't recall where. It works quite well as I only enter data into column C, D, and E.
It treats all CESG deposits the same as 'regular' deposits and calculates money-weighted, and time-weighted returns from that data.

The other two sheets I created myself.
The first records past results, asset allocation, and predict future values. I assume annual rates of 7% for equity, 3.5% for bonds, and 2% for GICs, and conservatively just calculate it against the starting year's balance. I update the yellow cells values manually. ETF MERs are shown just below these cells. I think everything else is pretty self explanatory on the sheet.


On the tracking sheet I record total returns both with, and without, the CESG.
For example, looking at my typical monthly attachment, under the asset gain column (column T in the sheet, with yearly data starting on row 3) the calculation:
- for 2015 is =SUM(S3/(P3+Q3))-1
- for 2016 it's: =SUM(S4/(S3+P4+Q4))-1

For column U, the column market asset gain (inc. CESG), the calculations are:
- for 2015 is =SUM(S3/P3)-1
- for 2016 it's: =SUM(S4/(S3+P4))-1


For the returns section (bottom-left corner of my typical monthly attachment, with the data in column R, starting on row 32), the calculations are:
- Total % return: =SUM(R28/SUM(R26:R27)) ..... aka it's dividing the total gains by the sum of the deposits and CESG received
- Total % return if CESG are a gain: =SUM(R29/R26)-1 .... aka it's dividing the total from the amount I've deposited (which excludes the CESG).

The annualized money-weighted & time-weighted returns come directly from the other sheet, and include CESG deposits.



View attachment 13465

View attachment 13473

View attachment 13481
 
#57 ·
Damn I had a big reply written out but I seem to have lost it. Note to self - copy contents of post to clipboard before hitting submit.

Long story short - you definitely got me thinking about how I can modify my own sheet to account for the CESG. I think it'll basically just involve adding another piece of monthly input (CESG recieved) and adding a column similar to your column U.

This is great - thanks again - and thanks for starting these threads. Your money diary is probably the one I follow closest
 
#58 ·
Ah, I know the feeling of losing those big posts - quite frustrating.


Thanks for the kind words.
If you'd like feel free to share your own results too. I'm happy to have 'my' threads filled with other couch potatoes in hopes of inspiring more to follow suit.


What were you thinking re: asset breakdowns in the future?
I plan to
i) stay in equity ETFs for the first four years,
ii) slowly shift over to bonds ETFs over the next eight years
iii) stay in bonds for a year before moving from bonds to GICs over four years, then
iv) sticking to GICs the last two years.
 
#59 ·
I hadn't given it a ton of thought but I was planning on slowly transitioning (10% every 2-3 years) from an 80/20 equity/bond split to a 20/80 equity/bond split. I'm starting to wonder if that's a little reckless though, given that this account will likely be drained over a period of 4 years there's probably no good reason to be in equities when the kid is approaching college age...

Even VAB.to has dropped considerably in the past couple months... maybe GIC's would be more appropriate..hmm..

My returns shouldn't be anything special because I'm probably just going to use the CCP 3 fund portfolio off the start. I'm 80/20 equities/bonds in my personal portfolio and my returns were the same (within 5 basis points) of another poster who mentioned that he was 80/20 with a CCP portfolio in the "how did you do in 2016?" thread. This gives me confidence that I'm a) doin' it right and b) calculating returns correctly.
 
#60 ·
I decided principal protection was the #1 priority when the funds are needed, so I, perhaps conservatively, am choosing to move fully into GICs a couple of years before the money's needed.
Given not all the money will be needed on day 1, some of the funds can be invested in multi-year products, which I'm hoping will return a respectfully higher rate than a cashable or 1-year GIC.
 
#62 · (Edited)
January 2017 update

Commentary
January carried on the consecutive win-streak to seven months, as the portfolio was up 0.28%.
The month also saw a $500 deposit that was used to rebalance the portfolio, and pushed the account over five-digits/$10,000.

Toward the end of the month, the total asset gains were over $1,000, and were greater than the total CESGs received.
However, the past couple of days saw most of the month's gains evaporate, lowering the total asset gains to just shy of $900.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 0.28% or $29.06


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015): up 9.31% or $884.57
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 22.17% or $1,884.57


How much money is the RESP making each year based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 7.91%
How much money is the RESP making each year if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 4.87%


The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $24.68


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View attachment 13810
 
#63 ·
February 2017 update

Commentary
February was the 4th best month since the RESP started, and saw the positive gain streak stretch to eight months.
The account was up 3.93%.

For the first time the investment gain in the account surpassed the amount of CESG received ($1,293 vs $1,000).


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 3.93% or $408.42


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 13.61% or $1,292.99
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 26.98% or $2,292.99


How much money is the RESP making each year based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 10.75%
How much money is the RESP making each year if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 6.83%


The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $25.77


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View attachment 14201
 
#64 · (Edited)
March 2017 update

Commentary
March marks the 24 month anniversary of the portfolio.
Over the month there was a deposit and rebalance, and the overall balance of the portfolio pushed deeper into 5-figure territory.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 0.89% or $118.23


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 11.76% or $1,411.22
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 21.92% or $2,411.22


How much money is the RESP making each year based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 11.76%
How much money is the RESP making each year if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 7.20%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $31.84


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View attachment 15282
 
#65 · (Edited)
April 2017 update

Commentary
April was the sixth best month on a percentage basis, and set a new record for the highest dollar gain at nearly $500.

The RESP received the Canada Education Savings Grant which boosted the overall value by $500. Our family also qualified for, and the RESP received, another $50 in additional CESG funds.
I don't expect we'll qualify for the additional CESG in future years, so our CESG cap moving forward should be $500.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 3.58% or $499.63


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 15.23% or $1,910.85
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 31.46% or $3,460.85


How much money is the RESP making each year based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 13.60%
How much money is the RESP making each year if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 8.83%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $33.10


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View attachment 15290
 
#66 · (Edited)
May 2017 update

Commentary
May was the 11th positive month in a row, with a slightly below average return of 0.42%.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 0.42% or $60.88


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 15.71% or $1,9,71.73
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 32.02% or $3,521.73


How much money is the RESP making each year based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 12.95%
How much money is the RESP making each year if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 8.67%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.24%, or $33.32


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View attachment 15298
 
#67 ·
June 2017 update

Commentary
By percentage, June was the 4th worst month since the RESP began (-3.34%), and ended the consecutive gain streak at 11 months.
In dollars, it was the worst month, finishing down nearly $500.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: down -3.34% or $484.50


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 11.85% or $1,487.23
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 27.61% or $3,037.23


How much money is the RESP making each year based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 9.15%
How much money is the RESP making each year if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 6.66%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.23%, or $32.09


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View attachment 15785
 
#68 ·
July 2017 update

Commentary
July saw a $500 deposit into the account, bringing the total yearly deposits to $3,500. The final 2017 deposit of $500 will be made in October.
From hereon, (for the sake of simplicity and having read about the benefits of various time frames when rebalancing), I've decided to accumulate cash in the account and rebalance the portfolio once per year.

Over the past four months (April to July) the portfolio has an investment gain of $0.50.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: down -0.52% or -$75.51


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 10.82% or $1,411.72
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 25.75% or $2,961.72


How much money is the RESP making each year based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 8.18%
How much money is the RESP making each year if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 6.18%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.22%, or $31.75


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View attachment 15930
 
#69 ·
August 2017 update

Commentary
August's end-of-month balance marked a new monthly high, as it edged out the previous high-mark hit in May by ~$6.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 0.46% or $66.24


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 11.33% or $1,477.96
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 26.33% or $3,027.96


The RESP's yearly return based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 8.03%
The RESP's yearly return if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 6.17%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.21%, or $30.60


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View attachment 16210
 
#70 ·
September 2017 update

Commentary
September's ending balance marked a new monthly high, via a late strong rally to end up 2.03%.
For the first time since May, the portfolio has made more from asset gains ($1,773) then it has from government grants ($1,550).

In October I'll make my last deposit of 2017, of $500, into the account.

Though I previously said I was only going to rebalance the account once a year, lately I've been eyeing a bi-annual rebalance during the early years of the portfolio.
At the moment I'm uncertain which way I'll go this month - leave the cash alone until April, or rebalance now.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 2.03% or $295.32


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 13.59% or $1,773.28
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 28.90% or $3,323.28


The RESP's yearly return based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 9.00%
The RESP's yearly return if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 6.81%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.21%, or $31.17


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View attachment 16417
 
#71 ·
October 2017 update

Commentary
October was a great month for the RESP. It was the best month by asset gain ($703.32), and the 2nd best by percentage gain (4.59%).
The account hit a new all-time high for total balance ($16,026), and total gains ($2,476).

In my last monthly update I was debating when to rebalance the portfolio - for now I've decided to hold off until the new year.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 4.59% or $703.32


Complete RESP results
The portfolio since inception (April 2015) is: up 18.28% or $2,476.60
If I count the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 33.56% or $4,026.60


The RESP's yearly return based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 11.70%
The RESP's yearly return if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 8.48%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.21%, or $32.91


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View attachment 16770
 
#72 ·
November 2017 update

Commentary
November carried on the RESP's gain-streak to 4 months.
It was the 11th best month by percentage, with a $260.14 gain.

During the month I decided to pull the trigger and rebalance the portfolio.
I felt the amount and percentage of cash I was holding was unreasonable given my time horizon and the seasonality of deposits into the account.
I'm planning to rebalance again in April 2018, and will likely also rebalance next November.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: up 1.62% or $260.14


Complete RESP results
Total deposits since inception (April 2015): $12,000.00
The portfolio's gain since inception: up 20.20% or $2,736.74
If I include the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 35.72% or $4,286.74


The RESP's yearly return based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 12.20%
The RESP's yearly return if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 8.88%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.23%, or $37.31


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View attachment 17137
 
#73 ·
December 2017 update

Commentary
December finished down -1.19%, or -$194.30, and was the 8th worst month since the account began.
The ending balance was: $16,092.44.

For the year the account gained 11.71%, or $1,686.93.
If I include CESGs as a gain, the account made 16.14%, or $2,236.93.


Monthly results
The portfolio this month: down -1.19% or -$194.30


Complete RESP results
Total deposits since inception (April 2015): $12,000.00
The portfolio's gain since inception: up 18.76% or $2,542.44
If I include the Canada Education Savings Grant [CESG] funds as an investment gain, the portfolio is: up 34.10% or $4,092.44


The RESP's yearly return based on my deposits and growth (aka the annualized money-weighted rate of return since inception): 10.78%
The RESP's yearly return if I ignore the size of new deposits and treat them all equally (aka the annualized time-weighted rate of return since inception): 8.11%
The annual cost of the portfolio (i.e, the combined, embedded ETF management fee) is 0.23%, or $36.76


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View attachment 17441
 
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