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Wynne gov't lying to consumers on cap and trade carbon tax on home heating bills

36K views 274 replies 25 participants last post by  carverman 
#1 ·
Wynne is lying when she mentioned in an interview with the media that her carbon tax starting January 2017 will
only add about $6 to the average household heating bill using nat gas.

I used the Union Gas website calculator and submitted my nat gas usage from the 4 coldest months last winter (2015)

on 428 cu meters (january) the cap n trade carbon tax is calculated at $14.12
on 378 cu meters (february) calculation is $12.47
on 310 cu meters (march ) calculation is $10.29
Ok this carbon tax is based on consumption and from May to October, the natural gas usage will not be as high as
in the winter months...lets say 100 cu meters for heating water and some home heat in the early spring and fall
for 2 months ..
on 100 cu meters (may) calculation is $3.30 ($6.60 for the two months of may and October)
for the other 6 months where a/C is used more (except for water heating) lets say it costs 40 cu metres to heat the water
40 x 3.3c = $1.32 (june, july, aug, sept) $1.32

So who is lying here?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-budget-1.3461834
Gas prices in Ontario will rise about 4.3 cents a litre and residential natural gas bills will go up about $5 a month under
the Liberal government's cap-and-trade plan
.
 
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#248 ·
Why do you have different data that you can compare to? Data get revised. That is part of statistics. If you've got evidence that they are fudging the data, you absolutely must share it. It would be almost criminal not to share such evidence on such an important issue. But since your case against the scientific community rests on nothing but unsupported accusations and aspersions, I won't hold my breathe waiting for it.
 
#249 · (Edited)
The North Pole was above freezing, while cold weather was much further south than normal.

Today it is mild and raining in Ontario..........in January.

Severe drought, unusual weather patterns, historic severity level storms, higher waves than previously recorded, rising sea levels, disappearing ice......are all signs of changing weather patterns due to climate change.

Some people will always demand more "proof" than there will ever be, but they aren't going to matter.

The world opinion is that climate change is happening and human activity is a factor.
 
#253 ·
Sure. Get your medical advice from your accountant and your legal advice from your carpenter. Don't get information on climate from climate scientists - get it from an engineer "pants on fire" blogger instead.

No proof that the data were tampered with to pursue an agenda.
 
#262 ·
So you don't have an objections to their analysts, but you still dismiss it.

Two can play that game: Richard Goddard, if that's his real name, is a known climate change sceptic with an agenda to push.

You'll believe any blogger who writes something that confirms your beliefs, but you won't believe thousands of peer-reviewed academic papers, 200 scientitic organizations, 80 national academies of science, 16 Nobel laureates or Stephen Hawking in a pear tree.
Davis - It is just not worthwhile trying to converse with these guys. I don't know what their agenda is, other than perhaps to ruin this otherwise useful financial forum. But i would give it up. Let them talk to each other.
 
#265 ·
Davis - It is just not worthwhile trying to converse with these guys. I don't know what their agenda is, other than perhaps to ruin this otherwise useful financial forum. But i would give it up. Let them talk to each other.
It does seem like they really want an echo chamber. There's precious little in the way of serious debate here. And there's not much point in arguing science with people who consider science to be a "cult".
 
#271 · (Edited)
Got my Enbridge bill today. They hid Wynne's 3.518 cents per cu meter of gas in the DELIVERY PORTION of my bill.

The other issue is that HST is being charged on the entire bill including the 3.518cents per cu meter of carbon tax they had added on as of January 1.

This represents double taxation..a tax on a taX and this tax represents a $1.12 windfall for Endbridge/Wynne. on my Dec/Jan nat gas usuage of 262 cu M.

I complained to Enbridge first, who said they couldn't do anything about the way their bills are setup, but I could complain to the Ontario Energy Board using the file #EB-2016-0300 in the subject line and lodge my complaint.

The Ontario energy board email is; BoardSec@ontarioenergyboard.ca
 
#273 · (Edited)
^ That sounds about right. I was told by Hydro One and my propane company that the carbon tax will be hidden inside the distribution charge and propane rates. So much for transparency!
The effect of hiding this current carbon tax inside other charges (Delivery) is that it is COLLECTED FROM THE CONSUMER of natural gas and therefore subject to double taxation as I mentioned.

With the carbon tax hidden, the Wynne fiberal gov't (and future Ontario gov'ts)can go ahead and increase the carbon tax levey as they need more general revenue.... and it will still be hidden inside other charges that paid by the consumer.

At least the old Ontario Hydro debt retirement charge was shown separately to indicate how much
each electricity user had to pay.

The OEB should be notified by all nat gas consumers that this practice of hiding additional taxes is not acceptable.

For instance, I calculated that my carbon tax on 292 M3 at 3.518 cents/M3 of nat gas used was $9.20.
Add the 13% HST on top of this carbon tax and it's another $1.20 making it an effective tax of $10.40
or 3.5616 cents per cu metre NOT 3.518. A windfall for the corrupt Wynne Liberal gov't!

Now that may seem like much to some of you out there..but if your annual consumption of natgas for heating/hot water is say...1000M3; its, another $35.18 of extra carbon tax you as a consumer have to pay now + $4.57 of extra HST
on this carbon tax..a tax upon a tax!

I'm quite positive that there will be no real effect on global warming from charging this carbon tax by the Wynne gov't. It is just another tax to pad their coffers and either waste it, or use it to pay down their
created deficit.

The nat gas suppliers are in on it as well with this cap n trade scheme and they just pass on the tax to the consumers that have no choice but to pay it.

I sent in a protest to the OEB about the double taxation I discovered on my first gas heating bill.

I expect the Wynne gov't to financially rip us off wherever and whenever they can.

This is not transparent gov't but grabbing as much tax revenue as they can now and in the future!
 
#274 ·
I don't understand why people get so animated by "double taxation". The government needs a certain amount of revenue, and the rates are set so that they get it. Would you be happy with a carbon tax that was set a bit higher, but exempted from HST?

The other thing to keep in mind is that the carbon tax will be built into the cost of everything since every business uses energy. The services they sell are, for the most part, subject to HST.
 
#275 ·
I don't like double taxation. The cap n trade scheme that the Wynne gov't is using doesn't concern me. What does concern me as a pensioner on a fixed income that Wynne and her henchmen have the audacity to double tax me.

Don't bury these double or even triple taxes on commodities that consumers use. List it out in the
open on the monthly bill like the HST.
 
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